e46 M3 suspension setup, or how to not downgrade your car with suspension mods

[SQ13]

my consumer V3's just went in for a rebuild last week and I just got the call today that they don't want to rebuild them as they're slammed with race builds for the start of season, instead they're sending a new dampers from Germany.

I never felt the V3's were stiff, always thought they were extremely compliant even on Houston streets.

To SQ13's chagrin, I may just run them with some linear springs and see how they do 😘


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I mean it’s your car, not mine, so what you do to it doesn’t affect me in any way. My point was that you’re probably better off doing things right the first time instead of fucking with things, which is the route I’m going with (i.e. getting a ready to install high quality coilover kit, catted sec 1 instead of welding cats into a catless sec 1, etc).

[fattycharged]

The KW Motorsports and KW consumer (V1, V2) products seem to be different. KW Motorsports stuff in Europe is the real deal, and a lot of people from Manthey to BMW customer racing run their dampers. Emotion Engineering is the only one I'm aware of in the US that works with KW Motorsports products.

my consumer V3's just went in for a rebuild last week and I just got the call today that they don't want to rebuild them as they're slammed with race builds for the start of season, instead they're sending a new dampers from Germany.

I never felt the V3's were stiff, always thought they were extremely compliant even on Houston streets.

To SQ13's chagrin, I may just run them with some linear springs and see how they do 😘


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[lvm3sm46]

SQ13sorry for the late response. I needed the Spacers from Barry to get the correct ride height. Same spring and rate as you. I was running the Turner Hybrid camber plates.

[Cronenberged]

Thing is there's no real harm in just tinkering. You can always set them back to full soft and start again if you end up hating life. Shops will each have their own preferred brands, and won't always be objective about why ($$$) so just keep that in mind. The basics of damper tuning are the same on any brand.

This is true, all this started with FCM and they only work on monotube non adjustable Bilsteins.

[Nate047]

That’s good to know because I had no idea. Then the next step is finding shops that support it… because I definitely don’t know the ins and outs of fiddling with knobs.

Thing is there's no real harm in just tinkering. You can always set them back to full soft and start again if you end up hating life. Shops will each have their own preferred brands, and won't always be objective about why ($$$) so just keep that in mind. The basics of damper tuning are the same on any brand.

[r4dr]

In the states you can order KW Motorsports through KW themselves. You simply have to fill out an order form, denoting monotube/twintube, inverse strut, spring rates, external reservoirs, reservoir line sizing…virtually every aspect of the damper is customizable. Hope to see more people take advantage of this program! Pricing is on par with JRZ/MCS.

That’s good to know because I had no idea. Then the next step is finding shops that support it… because I definitely don’t know the ins and outs of fiddling with knobs.

[cornerbalanced]

The KW Motorsports and KW consumer (V1, V2) products seem to be different. KW Motorsports stuff in Europe is the real deal, and a lot of people from Manthey to BMW customer racing run their dampers. Emotion Engineering is the only one I'm aware of in the US that works with KW Motorsports products.

In the states you can order KW Motorsports through KW themselves. You simply have to fill out an order form, denoting monotube/twintube, inverse strut, spring rates, external reservoirs, reservoir line sizing…virtually every aspect of the damper is customizable. Hope to see more people take advantage of this program! Pricing is on par with JRZ/MCS.

[SQ13]

mrgizmo04 lvm3sm46 What front spring rates and lengths did y’all end up with for the R&T kit, and what ride height was achieved?

I’m ordering a TrackDay kit from 3DM, and Barry recommended 7” 336 lb/in Swift springs when I mentioned that I want the front rate to be around 350 with stock 630 rear. However, it looks like I won’t be able to get the car high enough (13.5”) if I go with that spring? FWIW, I’ll be trying the kit with Ohlins/Vorshlag camber plates.

If the car is too low, I could add a helper spring to get me to my desired ride height, and Barry suggested this as well. Hyperco sells 2.5” helpers with a solid height of 0.44” and 0.70”, and Ohlins (Swift?) sells a 65mm helper with a solid height of 0.63”. Plus the thickness of the adapter/spring guide. Even if the lower spring perch isn’t near the top, I don’t think I’ll have clearance issues with 18x9.5 ET35 ARC-8s, since I run a 10mm spacer to clear the 996 calipers?

[Tbonem3]

It was the M4 GTS fitted with KWCS 3-way from the factory.

Has there been a lot of hate with KW products? I wanted KW's for the E46 but I was told the ST's are KW's, just doesn't have the anti-corrosive coating on the shock body. I naturally went with ST's, otherwise it was going to be KW2's. Can someone confirm that ST XTA's are basically KW2's?

STs are KW1s iirc.

[r4dr]

I agree it's probably a little unrealistic to think they have tested every suspension package option they sell on every car but given their on/off close relationship with BMW Motorsport (BMW Motorsport | KW suspensions) I would be surprised if they didn't put in testing effort into their BMW M kits... This is why I have never understood the hate for KW in the US... they are super common in Europe and BMW clearly backs them, I can't remember what GTS/CS model it is but it is the factory suspension for one of their M3/4 fitouts.

The KW Motorsports and KW consumer (V1, V2) products seem to be different. KW Motorsports stuff in Europe is the real deal, and a lot of people from Manthey to BMW customer racing run their dampers. Emotion Engineering is the only one I'm aware of in the US that works with KW Motorsports products.

[bigjae46]

I agree it's probably a little unrealistic to think they have tested every suspension package option they sell on every car but given their on/off close relationship with BMW Motorsport (BMW Motorsport | KW suspensions) I would be surprised if they didn't put in testing effort into their BMW M kits... This is why I have never understood the hate for KW in the US... they are super common in Europe and BMW clearly backs them, I can't remember what GTS/CS model it is but it is the factory suspension for one of their M3/4 fitouts.

BMW likely does the testing and tells KW what they want. Europe is one thing where the roads are generally smoother. The bumpy roads in the US require a more compliant suspension.

[WestBankM4]

I agree it's probably a little unrealistic to think they have tested every suspension package option they sell on every car but given their on/off close relationship with BMW Motorsport (BMW Motorsport | KW suspensions) I would be surprised if they didn't put in testing effort into their BMW M kits... This is why I have never understood the hate for KW in the US... they are super common in Europe and BMW clearly backs them, I can't remember what GTS/CS model it is but it is the factory suspension for one of their M3/4 fitouts.

It was the M4 GTS fitted with KWCS 3-way from the factory.

Has there been a lot of hate with KW products? I wanted KW's for the E46 but I was told the ST's are KW's, just doesn't have the anti-corrosive coating on the shock body. I naturally went with ST's, otherwise it was going to be KW2's. Can someone confirm that ST XTA's are basically KW2's?

[STAATS]

They don't typically tune to specific cars. JRZ provides a damper that physically fits and provides a damper set up to some sort of calculation. It takes a Bimmerworld, Vorshlag, Turner, etc to fit the damper and try out spring rates and damper settings.

KW says they test on each car they sell a suspension for. Not sure I believe it, KWs are so stiff they ride like crap.

I agree it's probably a little unrealistic to think they have tested every suspension package option they sell on every car but given their on/off close relationship with BMW Motorsport (BMW Motorsport | KW suspensions) I would be surprised if they didn't put in testing effort into their BMW M kits... This is why I have never understood the hate for KW in the US... they are super common in Europe and BMW clearly backs them, I can't remember what GTS/CS model it is but it is the factory suspension for one of their M3/4 fitouts.

[WestBankM4]

Thanks for the replies regarding my question about AST. I remember I was number one or two with their 5100's, so early in fact that they were indeed having "teething issues", specifically portions of my kit that were incorrect after delivery by Vorschlag. They had a specialist from Holland flown in to assess the situation, I thought that was extremely odd at the time.

[bigjae46]

I would hope these companies like jrz/moton/ast are putting effort into tuning each vehicle individually but maybe they aren't.

They don't typically tune to specific cars. JRZ provides a damper that physically fits and provides a damper set up to some sort of calculation. It takes a Bimmerworld, Vorshlag, Turner, etc to fit the damper and try out spring rates and damper settings.

KW says they test on each car they sell a suspension for. Not sure I believe it, KWs are so stiff they ride like crap.