E46 M3 GTR Based Parts (Gauging Interest)

[Apex_80]

Hi all!

Where I currently work I have unique access to one of the original PTG e46 M3 GTRs. The car is currently apart so I've been looking at the different suspension pieces and been brainstorming what might work as a great addition to the e46 M3 community as a whole. As a passionate member of this community I've always loved and longed for one of these cars so to me its very cool to be able to analyze these pieces. Where I work also has the ability to replicate and manufacturer some of the pieces that are on the car however, before we really delve into the project I wanted to see what type of interest there might be in the community for suspension pieces that are modeled after the original PTG design. The scope of this could vary greatly as some pieces (knuckles, hubs are highly different from OEM so would be incredibly costly to reproduce) however items like the front lower control arms retain the factory mounting location. Given this we tried to single out one or two pieces that could have an immediate benefit to a customer but be affordable enough that it made sense to both make and purchase.

The front lowers are unique in design to optimize dynamic front suspension characteristics but still utilize the factory mounting location to the chassis. Given this we may pursue modeling front lower arms that have all the benefit from the GTR front suspension but still are a direct bolt on to the OEM e46 M3 king pin and subrame mount location. Admittedly this addition will add a certain NVH because the GTR suspension has no bushings, it is all rod end based.

How is the interest in a project like this? Any other parts that we should take a closer look at that may have some interest?

[Sharocks]

Is this a P60 equipped PTG M3?

If so, does it utilize the golf ball shift knob? Been looking for years for a shift lever extension to run one properly. I have a failed attempt at one currently in my X5 just for the hell of it but would love to see a nice one done.

Control arms would be a very niche part.

An actual GTR hood, while it's been done before, hasn't been done in the US. Could be an option.

Just some ideas I guess.

[Apex_80]

Is this a P60 equipped PTG M3?

If so, does it utilize the golf ball shift knob? Been looking for years for a shift lever extension to run one properly. I have a failed attempt at one currently in my X5 just for the hell of it but would love to see a nice one done.

Control arms would be a very niche part.

An actual GTR hood, while it's been done before, hasn't been done in the US. Could be an option.

Just some ideas I guess.

The car was originally a V8 car as I understand, however the current owner does not utilize the original P code engine and it has a different transmission in it as well. I can try to dig around and find out more info about its original shifter setup.

Agreed control arms will fit a niche, but I believe the track community is big enough to warrant the interest. It'd be an amazing upgrade to a track or race e46, maybe not as much for a street cruiser.

GTR hood is an interesting idea. We have a composite company down the street from us, I can research this but I worry it would be cost-prohibitive. Doesn't hurt to ask though!

[S14]

If it's a good product and serves a purpose, then they will sell. How is it different from tubular control arms already on the market like SLR's kit?

[SandeepM3]

Much interest!

Is this a P60 equipped PTG M3?

If so, does it utilize the golf ball shift knob? Been looking for years for a shift lever extension to run one properly. I have a failed attempt at one currently in my X5 just for the hell of it but would love to see a nice one done.

Control arms would be a very niche part.

An actual GTR hood, while it's been done before, hasn't been done in the US. Could be an option.

Just some ideas I guess.

You could always tap a lever to take a M12 inner thread. That's the size on the CAE shifter and a golf ball knob screws on to mine perfect. I think you can buy the gold ball knob with the screw on and without(mines screw on), so just make sure to get the screw on.

[Apex_80]

If it's a good product and serves a purpose, then they will sell. How is it different from tubular control arms already on the market like SLR's kit?

I'm aware there are numerous designs out there like SLR, BW, AKG, but a few of those have shown to not be durable and they can't take the design directly from the GTR part as it sits in front of them. So I see the upside as quality and control of manufacturing. Our community is so large with so much aftermarket support that there are solutions for just about everything, question remains if there could be a better solution.

[Sharocks]

Much interest!



You could always tap a lever to take a M12 inner thread. That's the size on the CAE shifter and a golf ball knob screws on to mine perfect. I think you can buy the gold ball knob with the screw on and without(mines screw on), so just make sure to get the screw on.

I could but I want the knob sitting taller. To do that one must have an adapter from stock lever to give us the height. I have one I milled at my friend's shop. It's not perfect but it works. Would be cool to see a finished one.

[S14]

I don't think there is a market for this specifically, but would you possibly be able to show how the coolant ducting works? I snapped this photo at Laguna Seca in 2001 and was in awe of how far back the V8 sat and the massive amount of carbon in front of it. What was the radiatior/oil cooler setup like?

[Estoril]

[Altaran]

I don't think there is much to be developed on the suspension side from a GTR.

I inspected it a little more closely in the BMW World in Munich. Seems to have a different RACP that extends further to accommodate the wider wheel arches. Other than that it's just what is commonly referred to DTM Style control arms with monoball joints on the front and rear.

The shocks are monotube, probably Sachs but not sure. Anyways, suspension technology has improved considerably since 2002. So I would not recommend trying to duplicate it as there are much better options available today. Get an Öhlins TTX setup and you will have a much better performing shock.

What would be really interesting is the motor block. Compared to the P65, the P60 seems to be much more compact, hence lower weight, lower center of weight, and a more rear biased center of weight. Also the power potential is unreal, it supposedly makes 598 hp from 4L without air restrictors. Unfortunately there is just no spec floating around and bmw is keeping everything a secret, even after almost 20 years...

Gesendet von meinem LON-L29 mit Tapatalk

[Arith2]

Develope some prototypes and see what happens. You could always expand on the technology. Switching to a centerlock design is something I always wanted to do.

[BigZuc]

Hey everyone, this is the first forum I’ve joined, great to meet you all.

Hope this isn’t too late, but I’ve got a few questions and if you were able to answer them (or just point me in the right direction) I’d really appreciate it. I’ve just got to give a bit of a preface here, the most modern race car I’ve worked on was the 1985 Jaguar XJS TWR, so I’m pretty far behind in race-tech knowledge, and my current circumstances have opened the doors for me to be able to make a really really good E46 M3 GTR Replica.

Basically, I’ve dived right into the deep end.

So, I’ll try format this as best I can:

1. The PTG M3 you’ve got access to, is it one that has the centre locking hub to which the iconic BBS RE594/RE595 can be fitted?

2. If that is the case, is the hub itself an especially uniquely designed/engineered piece?

3. Are the two photographs posted by “Estoril” earlier in this thread of this PTG’s front right corner?

4. On the PTG M3, how have they widened the track width of the car by that much? Is the entire suspension unit mounted further away from the inside of the wheel arch by those thick black arms (visible in the 2nd photo posted by Estoril)?

5. Coming back to the hub, would it be possible to fit them to a road-going E46 M3? Now, what I mean by that is, aside from the hub itself, what components from the road car can stay, and what needs to be custom fabricated to make it work? I can’t imagine it’s a flat-out “impossible” as an answer, surely.

6. When you say “…it will add a certain NVH…”, what does NVH mean?

7. “The GTR’s suspension has no bushings, it’s all rod-end based”. Can you explain what this means? I’ve really got no clue sorry.

8. Now, this car would be a road-registered vehicle, here in Victoria, Australia we have a nice little thing called an “Engineer’s Certificate” when you go to put a car that shouldn’t be on the road, on the road. (A guy here got a Lamborghini Diablo SV-R registered man, it doesn’t even have headlights lol). This is relevant because I’d plan to use this car near daily, on public roads. So the rock solid setup of the M3 GTR isn’t the ideal way I’d like it, at least not all the time. So, the question is, what challenges would I encounter if I wanted to have the ride height of the car raised by 5cm-7cm , and have road-race kind of stiffness shocks, while still using the centre lock hub and having the track width wide enough to fit not the PTG kit, but the Series 1 M3 GTR kit.

9. What’s the difference between the BBS “RE594” and “RE595” wheels? Is one just a wider wheel for the rear?

Alright, I think I’ve bombarded you with enough questions for now, and anyone else who might have an answer, please let me know.

If all of this turns out to be possible, a.k.a. The BBS centre locks will fit the hubs, the hubs can be mounted to a road E46 M3, I can widen the track width to the desired width, all the stuff I asked about, I will be VERY interested in having you produce the required parts replicated from the PTG car you’ve got there. Not to mention, in the event there’s parts that don’t exist that would be required, while I could get an engineering mob here in Australia to make the pieces, I’d rather pay however much more it’d cost to have you get the pieces done, seeing as you know the car already. This is pretty much a “money no object” kind of build, so do know I am serious with these questions.

Phew. That was a looooong post, thanks for reading, looking forward to any responses I get. Cheers guys

[ejendow]

Much interest!



You could always tap a lever to take a M12 inner thread. That's the size on the CAE shifter and a golf ball knob screws on to mine perfect. I think you can buy the gold ball knob with the screw on and without(mines screw on), so just make sure to get the screw on.

I thought the only two options were for a 14mm or 19mm shaft?

[PHNX636]

+1 on the ducting
Especially the portion between the bumper and rad, if possible.

[Syfon]

6. When you say “…it will add a certain NVH…”, what does NVH mean?

7. “The GTR’s suspension has no bushings, it’s all rod-end based”. Can you explain what this means? I’ve really got no clue sorry.

8. Now, this car would be a road-registered vehicle, here in Victoria, Australia we have a nice little thing called an “Engineer’s Certificate” when you go to put a car that shouldn’t be on the road, on the road. (A guy here got a Lamborghini Diablo SV-R registered man, it doesn’t even have headlights lol). This is relevant because I’d plan to use this car near daily, on public roads. So the rock solid setup of the M3 GTR isn’t the ideal way I’d like it, at least not all the time. So, the question is, what challenges would I encounter if I wanted to have the ride height of the car raised by 5cm-7cm , and have road-race kind of stiffness shocks, while still using the centre lock hub and having the track width wide enough to fit not the PTG kit, but the Series 1 M3 GTR kit.

6. NVH = Noise Vibration Harshness. The more stiff you make the suspension, the more poly-bushed or solid-mounted you make the chassis etc., all contributes to the general NVH of the car increasing. The ride will be less compliant, more engine/transmission noise, more vibrations from everything, etc..

7. This explains rod-ends quite well - https://www.hpacademy.com/technical-...sing-rod-ends/

8. Knowing how draconian laws are in Victoria/WA/NSW for (heavily) modified cars, and how extraordinarily difficult it is to engineer a "street-legal" race car, i wish you the best of luck in your endeavor lol. In saying that, anything can be done if you're willing to throw unnecessarily large sums of money at it...