Header brands and proven dynos

[Arith2]

So this is an interesting comment for me, mainly because (1) I appreciate the general care that goes into hand made, craft articles, (2) cars are no exception, (3) I don’t care about country or politics necessarily when it comes to that choice, and (4) China tends to be cheaper.

But… and here the “but” makes all the difference in the world (pun)… Chinesium tends to cancel out point (1) above. They’re not made with care, as a general proposition, and they cut the very corners you least want or can afford to be cut — materials and craftsmanship — in favor of cost. Thanks @jett_dogg for framing it up.

What I want to know is does that matter when it comes to metal pipes that transport exhaust gases? My mind tells me “No until proven otherwise”. Also, is what I’m looking for catless with thicker pipes (for deeper sound), or catless with a different material pipes, or larger pipes materials notwithstanding?

I’m not sure I’ll get the answer here, but I’ll keep reading. Louder, deeper sound with more mid- and bottom- end will be worth paying for, no matter who makes them.

maw

Titanium is basically out of the picture besides GruppeM($3000) and Billy Boats(also $3000) mufflers. If you want deep, you don't want Ti. It's more of an exotic sound and it also cracks due to hardness. I know politics really shouldn't be the main motivator but I recently found out second hand how bad conditions are for Chinese workers. They are slaves and I've seen slavery in a different country firsthand. Needless to say, I will never buy Christmas lights again. These products aren't designed in China, they're stolen or someone cheaps out, like Fabspeed. Buying from China is like rolling dice multiple times. Will the product fit? If it fits will it last? If not, will you be able to get all the time back you wasted? Material wise, stick to 304 stainless. Larger tips will deepen the sound a little and longer headers as well. Euro style are more raspy and higher pitched

[jet_dogg]

Anyone see the bj car with arh headers lose a shit ton of torque between 3-5k and 12 hp at the peak?

Not really an apples to apples comparison since the tuning was different hence two variables shifting to produce the results. In his defense he made it clear the tunes were not identical.

[maw1124]

I bought SS because I wanted the best power, quality, engineering and experience (with bmws) behind my exhaust. Made in Italy by hand was a bonus and I fully understand hand made goods are nuanced products. I have never owned a supersprint muffler so i can't speak to that. If you like china stuff that's totally your prerogative but I wouldn't be caught dead with that stuff on my car and I certainly wouldn't give them props for ripping off the euro design and selling it for cheap. That's just a weird thing to say since it's their modus operandi as with most chinese companies.

So this is an interesting comment for me, mainly because (1) I appreciate the general care that goes into hand made, craft articles, (2) cars are no exception, (3) I don’t care about country or politics necessarily when it comes to that choice, and (4) China tends to be cheaper.

But… and here the “but” makes all the difference in the world (pun)… Chinesium tends to cancel out point (1) above. They’re not made with care, as a general proposition, and they cut the very corners you least want or can afford to be cut — materials and craftsmanship — in favor of cost. Thanks @jett_dogg for framing it up.

What I want to know is does that matter when it comes to metal pipes that transport exhaust gases? My mind tells me “No until proven otherwise”. Also, is what I’m looking for catless with thicker pipes (for deeper sound), or catless with a different material pipes, or larger pipes materials notwithstanding?

I’m not sure I’ll get the answer here, but I’ll keep reading. Louder, deeper sound with more mid- and bottom- end will be worth paying for, no matter who makes them.

maw

[///Mangler]

Out of curiosity, what was the rest of the exhaust system w/both those headers?



There's no frick'n way the ARH's are the red line...no WAY they make more torque than the SSV1's...especially at lower rpms!

3.5" single with resonated section 2 and large resonator in the rear.

T

[///Mangler]

Is the ARH the red line and SS blue?

yes

[Slicktop]

"Here is a SSV1 complete, swapped over to the AR header (only change). Both tuned on same dyno, both by us, both on Emtron. Note – SAE number too."

Which line is which and why is there such a massive jump in torque too? Wonder if ARH is catless too.

[usdmej]

SS is still made the same way, in the same factory, by the same people.

if true that makes their inconsistent quality as of late pretty inexcusable. It's not 1 or 2 customers getting crappy product and I don't understand why people are defending the very apparent drop in QC

That being said I have run some of their products on my car and really like the ones I've kept.

[jet_dogg]

Since I bought my first e46 in 2002, I always felt that the more expensive options were basically useless. I remember when the SS fanboys were buying the race version bc they were considered “loud”. I purchased a B&B exhaust for a fraction and it sounded better.. also a lot of other people agreed.

SS dropped the ball with their last group buy. When ecs had 50% off cyber Monday 2017 I’m sure they sold more products in that one day than the group buy 2020 combined. How come none of their products had problems back then? Obviously something changed. And please don’t pull the Covid card bc that’s a shotty excuse. I own a bunch of rental properties and it was business as usual. If anything I worked harder. If I can do it, so can a company like Supersprint.


Props to Megan for making a set of headers for less than $300 that compete with companies such as SS, fabspeed Bimmerworld, etc. Even the ones that didn’t fit well were immediately replaced a few years back.

As mentioned above, people pay for a product they expect it to fit and last! Meanwhile back at the ranch there’s a bunch of upset forum members who spent their hard earned money thinking they would get a product that would at least fit right with little or no modification. The time and labor whom some probably paid for. You still have to pay a shop to lift the car and try and install a piece.

I bought SS because I wanted the best power, quality, engineering and experience (with bmws) behind my exhaust. Made in Italy by hand was a bonus and I fully understand hand made goods are nuanced products. I have never owned a supersprint muffler so i can't speak to that. If you like china stuff that's totally your prerogative but I wouldn't be caught dead with that stuff on my car and I certainly wouldn't give them props for ripping off the euro design and selling it for cheap. That's just a weird thing to say since it's their modus operandi as with most chinese companies.

"Here is a SSV1 complete, swapped over to the AR header (only change). Both tuned on same dyno, both by us, both on Emtron. Note – SAE number too."

Lmao.

[digger]

Once you get away from restrictive OEM type setups or crappy misaligned aftermarket stuff there isn’t much to legitimately gain from the header primaries themselves, and where there is it’s robbing from Peter to pay for Paul. The downstream stuff is probably more important.

[Will]

Is there an ARH install thread somewhere here? I believe it needs some mods for the O2 sensor and a specific tune from someone.


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This. I recall that thread, seemed like the gains were mostly from the tune.

[Obioban]

Is there an ARH install thread somewhere here? I believe it needs some mods for the O2 sensor and a specific tune from someone.


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I don't believe we've yet seen an example of an exception top end from them, and the bottom end/low mid range is always gutted. So... consider me dubious of the dyno posted. Neither even looks like the shape of an ARH curve.

[bigjae46]

Is there an ARH install thread somewhere here? I believe it needs some mods for the O2 sensor and a specific tune from someone.


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[Epoustouflant]

For what it's worth, when I was a Porsche tech, we put alot of Fabspeed headers and mufflers on. Most had the bungs welded in the wrong spot, the mufflers or the headers were off EVERY SINGLE TIME. We did well over 10 in the year I worked there. My dad put Topspeed headers(still chinese) fit the first time with only a need to push the exhausts together. That's normal though. Fabspeed is trash. The welds look good but they don't ever fit. Last week, I was walking past another track build and the Fabspeed headers didn't fit. It really sucked because they gave it to a new tech and old tech that thinks the aftermarket is Satan's child.

My Megan headers fit great and withstood getting hit by an exploding piston. They have my bill of approval. Once I fit the SS V1s to a CPI section 1, I'll probably sell them so someone else can enjoy them.

Fabspeed is pure, unadulterated crap.

My Fabspeed Race on my 987.2S cracked multiple times in various locations. They never cared.

There's a whole instagram page dedicated to pointing out their subpar product quality. Joey Fabspeed was just a legend in pre-youtube marketing and lives off of it to this day. He bamboozled so many Ferrari owners with China made stuff, it's John Kang "Eisenhaus" level.

After going through this with MFactory and uncovering he's nothing but a private labeling dude false advertising products, the guy dedicating that instagram page to Fabspeed is on an entirely different level of Sherlock Holmes action.

[stash1]

"Here is a SSV1 complete, swapped over to the AR header (only change). Both tuned on same dyno, both by us, both on Emtron. Note – SAE number too."

Out of curiosity, what was the rest of the exhaust system w/both those headers?

Is the ARH the red line and SS blue?

There's no frick'n way the ARH's are the red line...no WAY they make more torque than the SSV1's...especially at lower rpms!

[DropTopKingM3]

You pretty much have 4 headers to choose from

SS V1
ARH 6-1
Euro
Various euro copies

I have the Megan headers which went on without issue using stock hardware. I had the headers swaintech coated. The coating is ugly as hell but the temps under my hood are much lower. I have an aluminum coolant expansion tank in the drug bin. My coolant temps are about 10 degrees lower ever since I installed the headers.

Power...Megan headers, BW 3.5 race (no resonator), injen intake and PC tune. I had the tune adjusted based on a dyno run and have not re-run. Hit 316 on a dynojet. I think I could get quite a bit more by optimizing the tune, a better intake. Over 320 or maybe even 325?

Oem euro is my pick. The one think that does bother me about them is that hint of rasp they let out at around 3k-4k. Otherwise they’re the best bet.