Gordon Murray on What Could Have Been

[01SG]

Not sure if everyone has seen this, but I found some discussion about it randomly on the f30 forum, absolutely fascinating. Murray talks to Chris Harris about how McLaren was in talks with Paul Rosche and BMW to make another, more obtainable sports car after the F1. That is, until the other shareholders signed the deal with Mercedes, and BMW slammed the door. They were already approved for an alloy bodied, carbon paneled, manual, V8 two seater and a 2+2 with the straight six for around $150,000.

They start talking about the Mercedes SLR and BMW deal at around 51 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvFusDf30ds&t=3565s

[Arith2]

The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. There's a certain wrongness to choosing money over art that progresses the human race. It's rare to find actual art today but Gordon Murray is an engineering artist.

[Icecream]

The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. There's a certain wrongness to choosing money over art that progresses the human race. It's rare to find actual art today but Gordon Murray is an engineering artist.

Not sure how an ICE equipped sports car priced for the wealthy progresses the human race . Art is all about money and fame too, not some noble cause for humanity.

[lemoose]

Not sure how an ICE equipped sports car priced for the wealthy progresses the human race . Art is all about money and fame too, not some noble cause for humanity.

To be fair, much of the engineering behind the s70/2 trickled down to the s50.

[Icecream]

To be fair, much of the engineering behind the s70/2 trickled down to the s50.

That's true but the way things are going right now ICE won't be around for much longer (Ferrari is doing an EV ffs) and benefits from such a project would be limited. That is unless the project led to some massive increase to current ICE in efficiency/greenery (unlikely) to please the delusional.

[Arith2]

EVs are a disaster right now. Tesla can't get it right. Porsche can't get it right. The infrastructure is missing and when it isn't, the convenience will be. Batteries can't keep getting supercharged. They'll last a couple years and then cells start dying. That isn't going to change just because of science. I think this hydrogen fuel might go somewhere but ultimately people are going to find any excuse to complain. Hence the delusional people. Imagine a nuclear powered car that only needed coolant to keep it going. People would be having nuclear meltdowns everywhere 🤣

[Obioban]

Good news for the Gordon Murray fans-- we registered a forum for his upcoming Cayman competitor :P
(which I will be buying if it actually comes out)

https://t43forum.net/forums/

EVs are a disaster right now. Tesla can't get it right. Porsche can't get it right. The infrastructure is missing and when it isn't, the convenience will be. Batteries can't keep getting supercharged. They'll last a couple years and then cells start dying. That isn't going to change just because of science. I think this hydrogen fuel might go somewhere but ultimately people are going to find any excuse to complain. Hence the delusional people. Imagine a nuclear powered car that only needed coolant to keep it going. People would be having nuclear meltdowns everywhere 🤣

Not sure what you think they're not getting right-- current EVs, in their current form, make for a vastly better DD experience for anyone that can charge where they live. Barely any upkeep (tires, washer fluid), much more convenient (charge at home instead of going to the gas station), can't be neglected, don't need to warm up before being driven in earnest, quiet. Outside of the Nissan Leaf (which, uniquely, had no thermal management for its battery), we've seen it pan out that batteries are good for at least a decade (only that far has been proven because that's how long they've been on the road-- not because they're failing at that point) and hundreds of thousands of miles.

The infrastructure is a super easy fix. Have power cost different amounts at different times of day. Have it be cheapest from, say, midnight to 5am. People are then incentivized to charge their cars in those hours, when there's very little other demand on the grid. Every EV that I know of can already be set to charge within specific hours. Zero hardware change required for the grid or infrastructure, problem solved

[usdmej]

EVs are a disaster right now. Tesla can't get it right. Porsche can't get it right. The infrastructure is missing and when it isn't, the convenience will be. Batteries can't keep getting supercharged. They'll last a couple years and then cells start dying. That isn't going to change just because of science. I think this hydrogen fuel might go somewhere but ultimately people are going to find any excuse to complain. Hence the delusional people. Imagine a nuclear powered car that only needed coolant to keep it going. People would be having nuclear meltdowns everywhere 🤣

get some help my friend

[01SG]

Cars like that do progress the human race! They're inspiration. I didn't go to school to drive a Hyundai.

EVs catching fire and not going out is a problem. Although, short of logistical things like the amount of charging stations, there's not much to hold against them for normal people. They'll just never make sounds or have a manual transmission, a sense and a half is removed right there, so they can never have the involvement that an ICE car has.

The T43 will be the most exciting new car out there if it happens. I'll have to catch up on the development.

As for increasing the efficiency of the ICE, look at what Porsche is doing, investing heavily in synthetic "Efuels." It sounds like a long shot, but they appear to be making significant headway.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...sions-testing/

[Icecream]

Cars like that do progress the human race! They're inspiration. I didn't go to school to drive a Hyundai.

EVs catching fire and not going out is a problem. Although, short of logistical things like the amount of charging stations, there's not much to hold against them for normal people. They'll just never make sounds or have a manual transmission, a sense and a half is removed right there, so they can never have the involvement that an ICE car has.

The T43 will be the most exciting new car out there if it happens. I'll have to catch up on the development.

As for increasing the efficiency of the ICE, look at what Porsche is doing, investing heavily in synthetic "Efuels." It sounds like a long shot, but they appear to be making significant headway.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...sions-testing/

My last bit of hope rests with a handful of passionate engineers at Porsche. I guess that is true, a project like this could inspire enough new souls to keep the ICE going just a little bit longer and that by itself is a great thing.

[Will]

Gordon Murray talks about a new factory (to be completed 2024) and also a platform strategy through to 2030. Hopefully the T43 comes to fruition.

[tlow98]

Good news for the Gordon Murray fans-- we registered a forum for his upcoming Cayman competitor :P
(which I will be buying if it actually comes out)

https://t43forum.net/forums/

Not sure what you think they're not getting right-- current EVs, in their current form, make for a vastly better DD experience for anyone that can charge where they live. Barely any upkeep (tires, washer fluid), much more convenient (charge at home instead of going to the gas station), can't be neglected, don't need to warm up before being driven in earnest, quiet. Outside of the Nissan Leaf (which, uniquely, had no thermal management for its battery), we've seen it pan out that batteries are good for at least a decade (only that far has been proven because that's how long they've been on the road-- not because they're failing at that point) and hundreds of thousands of miles.

The infrastructure is a super easy fix. Have power cost different amounts at different times of day. Have it be cheapest from, say, midnight to 5am. People are then incentivized to charge their cars in those hours, when there's very little other demand on the grid. Every EV that I know of can already be set to charge within specific hours. Zero hardware change required for the grid or infrastructure, problem solved

a quick internet search doesn’t show much promise for the T43. Anyone know otherwise?

[Obioban]

a quick internet search doesn’t show much promise for the T43. Anyone know otherwise?

Sadly, agreed. Been silence.

[Will]

Seems like he's more interested in licensing rather than manufacturing with exception of the high-end (T50 and T33), so unless there's a partner who's willing to take on the manufacturing and post-sale support then these cars, I suspect, will be vapor-ware. The costs involved for mfg and support must be astronomical, so low volume niche vehicles aren't going to happen.

Recent interview talking about their new EV program:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/gordon-murray-plots-urban-ev-part-£300m-expansion

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/autocar-awards/gordon-murray-back-forefront-british-supercars

I still liked the i3 size / package, it was basically the perfect complement to the m3 when I had mine. I hope his EV program is about that size and gets picked up by a big mfg.

[Albino09]

Surprised nobody is talking about the new Lotus. If you want a lightweight, driver-centric 2-seat sports coupe with a manual transmission, the Evora has been beating that drum for years and now it's been replaced. You can even get an AMG motor with a DCT if you prefer that route to a supercharged 6.

Don't get me wrong, I love just about everything Gordon has designed over the years, but he will need the T50 and T33 to succeed before he can even think about trying to take on the Cayman and Emira.