.

[SQ13]

I’ll have to back out. Have more important expenses coming up.

[jbfrancis3]

I heard back from Dan at diffsonline. He knows the MFactory stuff and called it "soft metal junk." So if you intend to use his services like I am, its a no-go.

[Epoustouflant]

I heard back from Dan at diffsonline. He knows the MFactory stuff and called it "soft metal junk." So if you intend to use his services like I am, its a no-go.

As a clarification, Michael @ Mfactory confirmed Dan has never ordered a single set of gears from Mfactory. Dan is a dealer of MFactory products and he has ordered Helical LSDs in the past, however he complained it did not having enough margins.

I reached out to Dan @ Diffonlines for a GB and was met with a hard no - he had zero interest.

When I posted the Mfactory GB, he tried to reach out to discuss. The GB price of 599 + shipping is 800$ less than Diffonline's pricing for a new set of 3.91 gears as this is a true factory direct deal.

In regards to the gears, it's important to actually look at the specs:

• Forged raw materials imported from Japan
• SAE 8620 specifications: post-treatment Tensile U/Y Strength of over 900/550 MPa and HRC 61
• CNC machined to precise specifications
• Secondary Heat Treatment: State-of-the-art Case Hardening procedure achieved via computer-controlled Gas Carburization and Quenching
• Double-Tempering: A superior heat treatment technique used to decrease the brittleness and increase the toughness of their parts
• Surface Grinding: Through the use of state-of-the-art diamond grinding machines, they ensure all parts are smooth, precise and free of burrs
• Super Sub-Zero Processing: An advanced treatment technique whereby the parts are cryogenically hardened at -300°F, realigning the steels crystalline structure for maximum strength, then heat tempered again for a 3rd time to ensure maximum toughness (resistance to fracture)
• Micro-Peening Treatment: the parts are subject to a high speed shot blast with our proprietary micro media, creating a super smooth surface
• WPC treatment optional

In addition, Michael supports these with a 30 day, money back guarantee should it not meet the standards of your diff builder.

Mfactory also holds a privileged relationship with WPC, being one of their biggest worldwide dealer.

http://www.wpctreatment.com/

Mfactory is the only company in the world that has been able to engineer high precision engineering products like carbon driveshafts - are we thinking they can't make CNC machined gears?

In short, I'd take what Dan has to say with a grain of salt - and is typical Chinese product bashing. I can recognize Quality when I see it, no matter its origins.

Food for thought.

[Hallerhan]

fwiw I had an mfactory lsd in my single turbo 335, and never had any problems. I pushed that car pretty hard

[jbfrancis3]

Food for thought.

Its good perspective. I am taking it more than with a grain of salt; he does a lot of volume and supports customers with demanding applications. I don't find it surprising that he won't participate in group buys. I do find it surprising if what you say is true about him reaching out to you after posting. He went looking and found your post?

Sure, he could have a bias somewhere. I'm not sure I see an incentive with his service other than ensuring he is delivering a product that will perform. He also won't touch racingdiff's replacement clutches for the factory diff. Some people here have installed them and say they work. Different camps, and that's OK.

I am trusting diffsonline. However, they are far from the only option out there, with tackling some tackling it as a DIY, so everyone is welcome to do their research and come to their own conclusions.

[Epoustouflant]

Its good perspective. I am taking it more than with a grain of salt; he does a lot of volume and supports customers with demanding applications. I don't find it surprising that he won't participate in group buys. I do find it surprising if what you say is true about him reaching out to you after posting. He went looking and found your post?

Sure, he could have a bias somewhere. I'm not sure I see an incentive with his service other than ensuring he is delivering a product that will perform. He also won't touch racingdiff's replacement clutches for the factory diff. Some people here have installed them and say they work. Different camps, and that's OK.

I am trusting diffsonline. However, they are far from the only option out there, with tackling some tackling it as a DIY, so everyone is welcome to do their research and come to their own conclusions.

FYI, Dan has organized multiple group buys in the past.

I’ll remind everyone the GB is at 599, whereas Dan sells new 3.91 gear seats at 1399.

I have no issues supporting my statements with supporting emails from Dan - but I think enough has been said here and I am not out for Dan. Per reviews, he makes good work - that's why I reached out initially for a GB.

I do find it surprising he voices such baseless opinions.

You wonder what his intentions are?

I’m not seeing anything else than a guy wanting to preserve market shares over products he can’t compete on pricing nor can he actually deliver on as he is booked up - and a probable attempt at preserving market shares & margins by refusing to install these.

I am sure Michael would be open to extending guarantees on properly built diffs with his gear seats.

I trust Michael’s words on this far more than Dan’s.

[Ceelooboob]

I had an MFactory gear set in one of my Hondas when I was younger, I daily drove it, raced it ,and never had any issues. Fitment and quality were great. Sold it to a friend who continued using it after wards.

[wrongchi]

I would buy a set right now if I know who to go to for a diff rebuild. If anyone know a builder other than Dan in the US please inform me/rest of us.

[DESMDR3]

Of course dan at diffsonline would say that, he trying to run a business after all or he’s just being a hater lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Epoustouflant]

Of course dan at diffsonline would say that, he trying to run a business after all or he’s just being a hater lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It all could be so simple if people actually discussed their true feelings and intentions instead of talking BS. For now, it's looking like Dan achieved his goal of torpedoing this GB and we'll have to get used to overpaying for gears by 800$.

[jbfrancis3]

It would be helpful if there were some data points from other installers who regularly install MFactory final drive parts. Right now, we have a negative view from only ONE installer which is not representative of the whole spectrum (and there could be ill intentions mixed in), we have a positive view from the manufacturer and GB sponsor and we have only two end users who say "my stuff has been fine."

Curiously, it looked like a slow uptake from the beginning. I think 4 buyers joined over the course of 5 days before I commented. One more has joined. With 8 days left, at that same rate, the GB still wouldn't have gotten off the ground. I would speculate it has more to do with the optics of $100 shipping, stupid as it sounds.

I am not trying to absolve any one of anything. You have to look at from the perspective of other uninformed end users like me. The 8 bullet points describing the manufacturing process and materials sure sounds good but I really don't know what it means. On the group buy page, it states professional installation is highly recommended. If a given professional installer is not compatible with the product, then hey, there are some implications there.

Last point - if MFactory:
- already committed to designing this application and allocating resources to R&D (i.e. following the process you explained for their products in the catalog)
- will be creating a product that saves $800, or >50%, from where the current market is [don't forget that $100 shipping though ]
- is a fundamental supplier to the OEM's and aftermarket

...then they will follow the market forces and come out with this product anyway. Ain't no 20 or 25 count group buy on a small forum will make a damn bit of difference. I'm not saying you haven't put time & effort into working with MFactory, and possibly the whole idea of this application, but this should be beyond euroconnex if everything is stacks up as I've just described.

I am grateful for all the action you've brought to the forum and the great products you've presented. Not everything will be a homerun. I think it be better for the community and long term prospects if you had more impartiality, too.

[Epoustouflant]

Lots of wrong assumptions in that reply, let me give you my perspective.

1. We were at 15x prior to your comments. This wasn't a slow uptake at all - the GB wasn't even officially listed, this was purely available on NAM3.
2. Gears are shipped for 40$ by Ground at DiffOnlines. MFactory ships these by air for 100$. In the grand scheme of things when factoring in product pricing, this is a non issue.
3. You don't know what the specifications means. The MFactory diff manufacturing techniques and their benefits are clearly explained on the GB listing.
4. Those questions could have, and should have been directed at Dan for calling it soft metal pieces of junk. You didn't do that - instead you did what Dan wanted and shared his feedback here.
5. I'll give you insight: Dan doesn't even list specifications on his gear sets. You may want to push back the burden of proof on people that don't share any specs on their 1,399$ gear sets.
6. MFactory is not committed to developing this product - hence the group buy specifically for product development. If we don't reach 20x paid deposits, this is simply not happening.

Regarding your comments about my impartially - I will always, forever be partial to one group of people: the community. I will consistently search for products, brands and manufacturers that are willing to support us manufacturer direct to bring efficiencies to parts procurement for the BMW M community.

Right now; you are unknowingly Dan's mouth piece and positioned yourself against that mission. I don't assume you did so on purpose - you are visibly a technically oriented guy looking for technical answers that got caught up in vendor drama and hearsay. I'd suggest directing your analytical mindset towards the people using hearsay rather than facts to lay claim to their superiority in the market.

It would be helpful if there were some data points from other installers who regularly install MFactory final drive parts. Right now, we have a negative view from only ONE installer which is not representative of the whole spectrum (and there could be ill intentions mixed in), we have a positive view from the manufacturer and GB sponsor and we have only two end users who say "my stuff has been fine."

Curiously, it looked like a slow uptake from the beginning. I think 4 buyers joined over the course of 5 days before I commented. One more has joined. With 8 days left, at that same rate, the GB still wouldn't have gotten off the ground. I would speculate it has more to do with the optics of $100 shipping, stupid as it sounds.

I am not trying to absolve any one of anything. You have to look at from the perspective of other uninformed end users like me. The 8 bullet points describing the manufacturing process and materials sure sounds good but I really don't know what it means. On the group buy page, it states professional installation is highly recommended. If a given professional installer is not compatible with the product, then hey, there are some implications there.

Last point - if MFactory:
- already committed to designing this application and allocating resources to R&D (i.e. following the process you explained for their products in the catalog)
- will be creating a product that saves $800, or >50%, from where the current market is [don't forget that $100 shipping though ]
- is a fundamental supplier to the OEM's and aftermarket

...then they will follow the market forces and come out with this product anyway. Ain't no 20 or 25 count group buy on a small forum will make a damn bit of difference. I'm not saying you haven't put time & effort into working with MFactory, and possibly the whole idea of this application, but this should be beyond euroconnex if everything is stacks up as I've just described.

I am grateful for all the action you've brought to the forum and the great products you've presented. Not everything will be a homerun. I think it be better for the community and long term prospects if you had more impartiality, too.

[jbfrancis3]

Lots of wrong assumptions in that reply, let me give you my perspective.

I am sorry that you've had difficulty and obvious frustration caused by Dan. It doesn't sound fair or justified. Do you have any recommended installers that you could point this community to, and possibly already vetted and willing to install a customer-supplied final drive set?

[Epoustouflant]

I am sorry that you've had difficulty and obvious frustration caused by Dan. It doesn't sound fair or justified. Do you have any recommended installers that you could point this community to, and possibly already vetted and willing to install a customer-supplied final drive set?

Yes, there's a guy in Montreal that has installed many gear sets and diffs from MFactory: he's an M3 owner too. There's also a few members working on sourcing installers to support the GB.

MFactory also has a US location that may be able to support us, here is their info. I am getting in touch with their manager to organize a standard pricelist for installation services and potential LSD options to remove obstacles to this GB.

MFactory R&D / Synchrotech Transmissions, Inc
581 W. Covina Blvd
San Dimas, CA 91773

USA

(Research & Development / North American Sales & Distribution)
Business Hours: Mon-Fri 7.30am - 4pm (PST)
Tel: +1 909-592-5933
WhatsApp: +1 909-569-4095

Dan light a fire under our collective asses. I want to be clear that I appreciate you and do not doubt your intentions for one second JB.

[maupineda]

Where are we with the 4.1!? Is it actually going to happen? Otherwise I will have to get OE when available