heinzboehmer's 2002 Topaz 6MT Coupe

[heinzboehmer]

God damn it. Was never bothered by my seats being off center till I saw that picture from above, and now not only is that bothering me, but I noticed the stock seats in my e82 are off center, too.

Lol, my bad!

I'll be scanning a bunch of stuff (brey krause brackets included) and I'll post my final CAD work on here. Should be super straightforward to adapt the PP brackets to work with the Nogaros, if you want to move your seat further inboard.

[bigjae46]

God damn it. Was never bothered by my seats being off center till I saw that picture from above, and now not only is that bothering me, but I noticed the stock seats in my e82 are off center, too.

🤣🤣🤣

[Obioban]

God damn it. Was never bothered by my seats being off center till I saw that picture from above, and now not only is that bothering me, but I noticed the stock seats in my e82 are off center, too.

[0-60motorsports]

I don't know if you considered these, but I have them on my car with the PP ABE and I've been really happy with them. I used OEM manual sedan sliders.

https://www.speedengineering.de/en/S...r-s-side/16963

Very Nice. Who is the M texture fabric from?

[heinzboehmer]

Looking at my car as I get in to drive home, the Nogaro is in contact with the center console when the seat is forward enough to access the rear bolts. Don’t think there’s much inward to be had.

Hmm, on my car I can max out the forward travel on the sliders before I get any significant interference between the seat and the transmission tunnel. Difference might be down to where we placed our seats vertically on the brackets?




Seems to me like I can still push them inward a bit with my seating position

I don't know if you considered these, but I have them on my car with the PP ABE and I've been really happy with them. I used OEM manual sedan sliders.

https://www.speedengineering.de/en/S...r-s-side/16963

Woah! Thanks for bringing those to my attention, hadn't seen them before.

They honestly look pretty much exactly like what I had in mind. The TUV approval and certificates are very appealing. I like their slider release handle better than the Brey Krause one too.

One thing I don't love about their design is how they incorporated the sub strap mount. I get that it's made to be universal, but I think I can simplify it greatly.

I think I'm still gonna go ahead with my own version, just because I think it'll be fun to understand and work around all the constrains, but this will be an awesome reference to have and I might decided at some point in the process that it makes more sense to just buy this product.

How is the steering wheel alignment with these brackets? Think you could measure the offset of the seat centerline to the sliders centerline?

Even just the offset of the two parallel faces on the outboard bracket (the face that bolts to the rail and the face that bolts to the seat) would be useful. Can backcalculate the centerline offset with the seat and slider width.

[PipeUy]

I don't know if you considered these, but I have them on my car with the PP ABE and I've been really happy with them. I used OEM manual sedan sliders.

https://www.speedengineering.de/en/Side-panel-adapter-suitable-for-BMW-OEM-side-moulding-E46-Z4-driver-s-side/16963

[Obioban]

Looking at my car as I get in to drive home, the Nogaro is in contact with the center console when the seat is forward enough to access the rear bolts. Don’t think there’s much inward to be had.

[heinzboehmer]

And seems to be <1cm off between centre of wheel and centre of seat.



I'm sure a proper scanner would make this more accurate, but I don't think it's miles off - I got a decent enough capture to define decent reference points where it mattered.

Nice, thank you! For reference, the Nogaro Brey Krause combo puts the seat ~25mm off center from the steering wheel (in my seating position). I think the PP ABE is wider (outer dimension) than the CSL seats, so we'll see how close I can get them. I think I can do better than 25mm though.

Sorry, I should have been paying more attention.

Yeah, that's a good point. I might have to follow suit on that. I pretty much only use the passenger size for child/dog/back seat loading, as is, so might be worth the forward travel sacrifice on the driver's side...

... it would still have to go forward enough to be able to reach the rear slider bolt holes.

Yep, there's lots of things to balance here and it feels pretty hard to get it right on the computer. Working on a set of brackets that I can shim left to right so that I can play with the offsets directly on the car. I'll post what I come up with.

[Obioban]

Indeed, which is why I was talking about doing asymmetrical L/R offsets on the seat brackets. I'm willing to sacrifice forward travel on the driver's seat to get it more inline with the steering wheel, because I can do the opposite on the passenger seat and make it easy to get into the back from that side.

Sorry, I should have been paying more attention.

Yeah, that's a good point. I might have to follow suit on that. I pretty much only use the passenger size for child/dog/back seat loading, as is, so might be worth the forward travel sacrifice on the driver's side...

... it would still have to go forward enough to be able to reach the rear slider bolt holes.

[heinzboehmer]

That might be tricky because wouldn't you want the sub straps to slide with the seat? Not saying a sub strap bar can't be a reasonable compromise but they defeat the main benefit of a 6pt harness. A sub strap spreads the load to a 5th and 6th point. Bolting it to a bar which is attached to the seat is just adding to the stress on the seat mountings and the seat. Just keep in mind that safety systems aren't just designed for the first impact, the subsequent impacts are what cause most the injuries and death.
I don't want to come off as you need a full cage and bubble suit or its instant death...just want to make sure an informed decision is being made. Coming from someone who drives on the track in shorts...lol

Yep! I think I remember seeing a spec from either Recaro or Schroth about the angle that the sub strap needs to be at when it exits the bottom of the seat. Will stick to that. Plan is to have the bar move with the sliders, just like it does on my current Brey Krause Nogaro brackets.

Not sure where that seat is front/rear wise, but assuming it's towards the rear, looks like you'd hit the (not straight) center console pretty quickly if you moved the seat more inboard (centered on the wheel) as you moved the seat forwards on the slides.

Indeed, which is why I was talking about doing asymmetrical L/R offsets on the seat brackets. I'm willing to sacrifice forward travel on the driver's seat to get it more inline with the steering wheel, because I can do the opposite on the passenger seat and make it easy to get into the back from that side.

[Sharocks]

Yeah, like Obioban said, I don't like how the three points sit in them. Interestingly enough, I find the PP to be more supportive than the Nogaro, so should be more than good enough for the street. On track I'm belted in, so the side support is even less of a factor. Harnesses will work fine (for me) with the thinner bottom cushion.

You would need belt receiver extensions to allow for proper 3 point use for sure. Recaro PP's are eons better than Nogaros. You're like the 4th or 5th person I've seen switch from Nogaros to PPs. I sat in some Nogaros at HMS and immediately did not want them lol. Funny enough I've had a good bit of street time in 997 GT2 seats which are the foldable buckets, they're comfy for about an hour. After that they kinda suck.

[Obioban]

Not sure where that seat is front/rear wise, but assuming it's towards the rear, looks like you'd hit the (not straight) center console pretty quickly if you moved the seat more inboard (centered on the wheel) as you moved the seat forwards on the slides.

[Obioban]

I wish we were allowed to drive on the track in shorts in this area!

[bigjae46]

I'd like to keep the factory sliders, so current plan is to design some adapter brackets myself. I should be able to use the factory mounting points on the sliders, unlike the Brey Krause Nogaro brackets, which are designed to be bolted through some random holes on the top of the sliders. Need to figure out how to incorporate a sub strap bar cleanly into the design, but don't think it'll be a big issue.

That might be tricky because wouldn't you want the sub straps to slide with the seat? Not saying a sub strap bar can't be a reasonable compromise but they defeat the main benefit of a 6pt harness. A sub strap spreads the load to a 5th and 6th point. Bolting it to a bar which is attached to the seat is just adding to the stress on the seat mountings and the seat. Just keep in mind that safety systems aren't just designed for the first impact, the subsequent impacts are what cause most the injuries and death.

I don't want to come off as you need a full cage and bubble suit or its instant death...just want to make sure an informed decision is being made. Coming from someone who drives on the track in shorts...lol

[karter16]

karter16 Is it easy enough to measure the static offset of the seat to the rails? Curious to hear that number as the CSL seat is sort of notoriously wide/loose, so comparing to the tunnel is tough. I'm at 26mm offset toward center with my latest brackets and could probably get to ~31 without the pedals feeling weird.

Yep just measured - seat is offset ~30mm (allowing for a few mm of tolerance for manual measuring) towards the centre.

Edit: did not divide by 2