M3 v CSL 5th Gear Test

[shane@mbtech]

I have to disagree with all these posts.

Why?

It's like saying "the M3 hasn't got the same SMg software so it's not fair! Or the geo is different, it's not fair, or it's heavier it's not fair.

They are different cars with different wheels, tyres, SMg, software, diff, suspensions, weight, seats, power, so why pick on the tyres?

Not true 2005 on get same smg software and diffs are the same.

I know the differences but still would be curious to see how they compared on same Tyres. Like at spa where I really struggled on a048s compared to your cups. Put the slicks on and smoked you:birdman: so Tyres play a huuuuuuge part as well you know.

[shimmy]

The cup tyres were a standard fitment.
Michelin and BMW developed the cup tyre specifically for the CSL. Then it was fitted to other cars (in other setup / configurations).

Edit: why usually people that do not own a CSL struggle to show that the M3 is as good as the CSL when fitted with cup tyres ?

I thin it was actually a no cost option Alex....but don't listen to Rutty, his M3 is the slowest ever. :gayfight:

[alexk]

Shimmy, I do not agree with you.

The cups tyres weren't a standard fitment, were they?

BMW haven't struck a deal with Michelin to develop these cups specifically for CSL, have they?

Therefore, the argument for testing cars on the same tyres is valid IMHO.

Removing weight off car, changing software to CSL, upgrading engine parts etc etc is something completely different to upgrading tyres - which are a crucial safety aspect.

Cups 2 have come out. If I installed these on my M3 and raced CSL (on cups mk 1) - would it be a fair race?

The cup tyres were a standard fitment.
Michelin and BMW developed the cup tyre specifically for the CSL. Then it was fitted to other cars (in other setup / configurations).

Edit: why usually people that do not own a CSL struggle to show that the M3 is as good as the CSL when fitted with cup tyres ?

[shimmy]

Shimmy, I do not agree with you.

The cups tyres weren't a standard fitment, were they?

BMW haven't struck a deal with Michelin to develop these cups specifically for CSL, have they?

Therefore, the argument for testing cars on the same tyres is valid IMHO.

Removing weight off car, changing software to CSL, upgrading engine parts etc etc is something completely different to upgrading tyres - which are a crucial safety aspect.

Cups 2 have come out. If I installed these on my M3 and raced CSL (on cups mk 1) - would it be a fair race?

M6 are shit artyman:

[shimmy]

Forget the sunroof in the grand scheme of things would not make as much difference as the tyres.

Yes CSL was designed around Pilot Sport Cups but for curiosity sake and in the interest of science would be interesting to see how much closer the stock E46 M3 Coupe is quicker than the time already set on regular tyres.

1/3 closer

[Rutkowski]

I have to disagree with all these posts.

Why?

It's like saying "the M3 hasn't got the same SMg software so it's not fair! Or the geo is different, it's not fair, or it's heavier it's not fair.

They are different cars with different wheels, tyres, SMg, software, diff, suspensions, weight, seats, power, so why pick on the tyres?

Shimmy, I do not agree with you.

The cups tyres weren't a standard fitment, were they?

BMW haven't struck a deal with Michelin to develop these cups specifically for CSL, have they?

Therefore, the argument for testing cars on the same tyres is valid IMHO.

Removing weight off car, changing software to CSL, upgrading engine parts etc etc is something completely different to upgrading tyres - which are a crucial safety aspect.

Cups 2 have come out. If I installed these on my M3 and raced CSL (on cups mk 1) - would it be a fair race?

[Straightsix]

Agreed!

Also, they test the heaviest possible M3 with a sun roof VS lightest CSL as you say, on cups. A silly comparison IMHO

Forget the sunroof in the grand scheme of things would not make as much difference as the tyres.

Yes CSL was designed around Pilot Sport Cups but for curiosity sake and in the interest of science would be interesting to see how much closer the stock E46 M3 Coupe is quicker than the time already set on regular tyres.

[Straightsix]

Always thought that myself about that vid.

Plus 1 :-)

[mattCSLnut]

Agreed!

Also, they test the heaviest possible M3 with a sun roof VS lightest CSL as you say, on cups. A silly comparison IMHO

Not as silly as you think mate :wink: If the Standard (heavy) M3 was fitted with CUPs which are specifically designed for the (lighter) M3 CSL (with CSL specific load rates) The CUPs would have been worked that much harder on the heavier car and possibly overheated to the point of no grip advantage. Worth considering ?

[mattCSLnut]

That's a nice red - don't see many of those on the E46....

Imola Red IIRC :smokin: Almost as rare as Alpine White on E46 M3.

[shimmy]

Should have leveled the playing field by putting cups on the standard M3 - that would have been a true test of the weight / power / suspension differences.

Always thought that myself about that vid.

Agreed!

Also, they test the heaviest possible M3 with a sun roof VS lightest CSL as you say, on cups. A silly comparison IMHO

I have to disagree with all these posts.

Why?

It's like saying "the M3 hasn't got the same SMg software so it's not fair! Or the geo is different, it's not fair, or it's heavier it's not fair.

They are different cars with different wheels, tyres, SMg, software, diff, suspensions, weight, seats, power, so why pick on the tyres?

[Teatowel]

That's a nice red - don't see many of those on the E46....

[Rutkowski]

Should have leveled the playing field by putting cups on the standard M3 - that would have been a true test of the weight / power / suspension differences.

Agreed!

Also, they test the heaviest possible M3 with a sun roof VS lightest CSL as you say, on cups. A silly comparison IMHO

[///martin]

The CSL is CSL:thumbs:

[shane@mbtech]

Should have leveled the playing field by putting cups on the standard M3 - that would have been a true test of the weight / power / suspension differences.

Always thought that myself about that vid.