Cam offset for 288/280

[chapmans]

Does anyone know what the cam offset settings should be for 288/280 cams? My tune currently has the CSL offsets but I'm still seeing the intake VANOS not adapting, with an inlet vanos adaptation error after a while.

[SliM3]

The offsets correct phasing between crank and cam sensors. Since Schricks and CATS appear to be modeled after the stock US/Euro cam base circles my advice would be to use those values, not the CSL.

Now, CATS run an additional 2-degrees on the intake spread @ peak lift (72-132 ATDC as opposed to 70-130 ATDC), so your Target Offset should be -2. Zero for exhaust since peak lift is at stock 83-128 ABDC.

In my experience, this will set the cams exactly at 60 intake and 0 exhaust when viewing data logs @ idle.


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[chapmans]

The offsets correct phasing between crank and cam sensors. Since Schricks and CATS appear to be modeled after the stock US/Euro cam base circles my advice would be to use those values, not the CSL.

Now, CATS run an additional 2-degrees on the intake spread @ peak lift (72-132 ATDC as opposed to 70-130 ATDC), so your Target Offset should be -2. Zero for exhaust since peak lift is at stock 83-128 ABDC.

In my experience, this will set the cams exactly at 60 intake and 0 exhaust when viewing data logs @ idle.


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That's what I was looking for, I'll try those values and see if it works and update.

[Chris_de]

SliM3 is that also true for schrick 280/272 cams? I'm running them with a fuel-adjusted CSL Tune.
I can see a intake vanos adaption of 3.5degrees and i'm asking me if that is right?!
And what do you mean with the base circles of the cams?
Thank you!

[ZiMMie]

SliM3 is that also true for schrick 280/272 cams? I'm running them with a fuel-adjusted CSL Tune.
I can see a intake vanos adaption of 3.5degrees and i'm asking me if that is right?!
And what do you mean with the base circles of the cams?
Thank you!

With CSL Software and Schricks 280/272 ,Set it like this.

K_EVAN1_OFFSET (Intake) - (0)
K_AVAN1_OFFSET (Exhaust) - (1)

That should set your intake adaptation close to zero (.5 to be exact).

[Chris_de]

With CSL Software and Schricks 280/272 ,Set it like this.

K_EVAN1_OFFSET (Intake) - (0)
K_AVAN1_OFFSET (Exhaust) - (1)

That should set your intake adaptation close to zero (.5 to be exact).

So whats the actual differnence between csl and schrick cams? I thought they are identical..
Thanks for the values, i will give it a try.

[ZiMMie]

So whats the actual differnence between csl and schrick cams? I thought they are identical..
Thanks for the values, i will give it a try.

Definitely not.

Regular M3 is 260/260, CSL is 268/264. see page 31.

[paulclaude]

For Cat/Schrick 280/272 and 288/280, the stock M3 offsets seem to work just fine (-2 inlet, +1 exhaust). I would assume that the Schrick/Cat grinds were produced based on stock M3 cams. From my testing, the offset values purely allow a center reference value (or perfectly timed value) for the Vanos to adapt +/-8deg for any mechanical timing difference of the camshafts. As long as the Vanos adapts on both cams, datalog will show ~60deg intake and ~0deg exhaust at idle. Positive adaptation values mean cam is slightly advanced, negative means retarded.

I don't believe the offsets have any other function other than adaptation for how the cams have been mechanically set- i've tested this on the dyno with large swing in the values to the limit of adaptation on inlet and exhaust and have seen no difference in power output. The offsets are similar to 'Cam Sync' that has to be manually set on most standalone ECU setups that have VVT control.

[Cubieman]

For Cat/Schrick 280/272 and 288/280, the stock M3 offsets seem to work just fine (-2 inlet, +1 exhaust). I would assume that the Schrick/Cat grinds were produced based on stock M3 cams. From my testing, the offset values purely allow a center reference value (or perfectly timed value) for the Vanos to adapt +/-8deg for any mechanical timing difference of the camshafts. As long as the Vanos adapts on both cams, datalog will show ~60deg intake and ~0deg exhaust at idle. Positive adaptation values mean cam is slightly advanced, negative means retarded.

I don't believe the offsets have any other function other than adaptation for how the cams have been mechanically set- i've tested this on the dyno with large swing in the values to the limit of adaptation on inlet and exhaust and have seen no difference in power output. The offsets are similar to 'Cam Sync' that has to be manually set on most standalone ECU setups that have VVT control.

So a positive adaptation means that the cam was mechanically set retarded and the DME must advance to true center or a positive adaptation means the cam was set mechanically advanced?

I also thought you had +/- 8° of movement on each cam so say you had -4° adaptation on one cam that meant you have lost 4° of Vanos adjustment as the DME must use up 4° in adaptation just to "center" the cam.

Thanks for the info, always learning.

[paulclaude]

So a positive adaptation means that the cam was mechanically set retarded and the DME must advance to true center or a positive adaptation means the cam was set mechanically advanced?

I also thought you had +/- 8° of movement on each cam so say you had -4° adaptation on one cam that meant you have lost 4° of Vanos adjustment as the DME must use up 4° in adaptation just to "center" the cam.

Thanks for the info, always learning.

Correct on the first two points. Regarding the +/-8deg, this is the adaptation limit rather than a movement, i.e how far out the cams can be mechanically set in order for the vanos to allow adaptation/cam sync. The adaptation min/max limit is also defined in the DME parameters and is dependent of the offsets set. E.g If you specify a more retarded offset, it will allow for less tolerance for cam mechanical timing in the direction of retard. Notice if you change the offset in the tune, it will shift the adaptation value higher or lower from the zero point.

I do not believe vanos moves the camshafts at all during adaptation. You can prove this by setting timing slightly advanced/retarded then running the engine and allowing it to adapt. If you remove the valve cover again then check timing you will find the intake cam still where it has been mechanically set.

[ZiMMie]

paulclaude were you resetting adaptions on the Dyno while changing the vanos offsetts?

[paulclaude]

paulclaude were you resetting adaptions on the Dyno while changing the vanos offsetts?

Yes, that is correct. If you don't reset, the adaptation values have a habit of not changing automatically from what i've found.

[terra]

0 and 3 is correct for the 288 / 280s; 0 and 1 for the 280/272s.

I do not believe vanos moves the camshafts at all during adaptation. You can prove this by setting timing slightly advanced/retarded then running the engine and allowing it to adapt. If you remove the valve cover again then check timing you will find the intake cam still where it has been mechanically set.

The cams won't physically move, the VANOS has no mechanism of doing that as everything is bolted in place. The targets will be shifted by the offset + adaption values.

[chapmans]

0 and 3 is correct for the 288 / 280s; 0 and 1 for the 280/272s.



The cams won't physically move, the VANOS has no mechanism of doing that as everything is bolted in place. The targets will be shifted by the offset + adaption values.

So for Dbilas 288 280 that is 0 intake and +3 exhaust offset?

[terra]

I would confirm that schrick and dbilas have the same vanos ranges