HPDE Organizations

[trackjunky]

The GVC BMW group runs pretty much only at the Glen and has some odd rules associated with passing and such. I try to avoid them just due to the bureaucracy but have run with them in the past. They seems to get quite a few weekend dates at the glen some sometimes its a necessity.

I mostly run at the Glen so I run with GVC chapter quite a bit and also instruct with them. I know the staff and the CI pretty well and they are a great club to run with in my opinion. Staff is always friendly and respectful but they also run a tight ship so usually there's plenty of quality track time. Mind sharing what you find odd with their passing rule and what kind of bureaucracy you experienced? The chapter is always looking to improve the DE experience and I can relay any constructive feedbacks you might have back to the CI. PM me if you'd like. For GVC, (and most other clubs that I've run with), the rule for passing is always point to the direction of the next corner, ie: if next turn is right, point over the roof. This is so that passing is more predictable and there's less likelihood of someone having to go around another car if the passing isn't complete by corner entry.

[ShiftLess]

I use turn signals for passing signals due to use of hand controls. My left hand controls both accelerator and brake so not a good idea to take my hand off it to give a passing signal. I always make a point of mentioning it during the driver's meeting when we are discussing passing zones and passing signals... generally OK but occasionally someone skipped the meeting or was spacing out during the meeting so I end up giving them multiple 'blinkers' until they either remember or figure it out. I ran with a club a few years ago whose organizers wanted to use the Audi Club / European blinker interpretation and it was very confusing in that I am used to the blinker indicating which side to pass on. like a 'normal' point by, rather than the AC/Euro version where the blinker indicates you are 'staying to that side'. There was one other driver at that event whose car had an enclosed cockpit so he was also using blinkers. We did it the way the organizers had specified but also did an informal poll of other drivers and instructors and everyone agreed it made more intuitive sense to stay on line and blink on the side you're expecting the pass ie dependent on whether the upcoming turn is a L or R.

I won't say it's better as I'm sure I've over blinkered or forgot to shut it off / cancel the signal. I do have a turn signal stalk I've ground down the part that keeps the blinker on until the wheel is turned/cancelled, essentially made it a momentary switch, but have yet to install as the unmodded turn signal stalk is OK with a soft touch so not to fully engage etc... and I've considered adding a window net as windows down is good but getting an arm stuck under a flipped car would really suck. (I have a friend who lost her leg in a Jeep rollover).

[Estoril]

It truly gets on my nerves when groups don’t clearly define the passing zones AND the proper side for passing in those individual zones. It gets in my nerves further when “new zones” open up (this isn’t so bad) or the drivers are told pass when they feel like they can get it done. This is a plague of “advanced intermediate” or even intermediate groups in some organizations, and why, IMHO, you see the most track incidents in these groups.

The advanced drivers are more familiar with racing etiquette and know who owns which part of the track if you go in side by side and the proper track out positions etc to allow for passing in turns. The guy in the Lizard Green GT3 RS who has some general track experience, but not a lot of [insert track] experience is sometimes a danger in this situation and will chop off your nose 9/10 times. I can’t prove that statistic, but it sounds about right…


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The cure for that is to go out with better HPDE organizations. You are paying money - why pay for those headaches? There are some organizations that simply don't care. Don't give them your money.

[Fresh1179]

It truly gets on my nerves when groups don’t clearly define the passing zones AND the proper side for passing in those individual zones. It gets in my nerves further when “new zones” open up (this isn’t so bad) or the drivers are told pass when they feel like they can get it done. This is a plague of “advanced intermediate” or even intermediate groups in some organizations, and why, IMHO, you see the most track incidents in these groups.

The advanced drivers are more familiar with racing etiquette and know who owns which part of the track if you go in side by side and the proper track out positions etc to allow for passing in turns. The guy in the Lizard Green GT3 RS who has some general track experience, but not a lot of [insert track] experience is sometimes a danger in this situation and will chop off your nose 9/10 times. I can’t prove that statistic, but it sounds about right…


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[eacmen]

Is it turn signal only at these events? I deleted the turn signal wiring, stalk and ground off the mounting point on the steering column. I’d be unable to drive in an event that requires turn signals.

Just curious since I want to start driving new tracks with different DE orgs.


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if you don’t have turn signals they let you use point bys.

[bigjae46]

Is it turn signal only at these events? I deleted the turn signal wiring, stalk and ground off the mounting point on the steering column. I’d be unable to drive in an event that requires turn signals.

Just curious since I want to start driving new tracks with different DE orgs.


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[eacmen]

The problem with turn signals is if you forget to cancel it, enter a turn and the car behind still thinks it’s OK to pass and dive bombs the inside.


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I’ve done 7 events with turn signals and never experienced this. Not saying it doesn’t happen though.

Being able to keep both hands on the wheel is a big plus IMO. And generally people give shitty point bys anyway at anything over 100mph.

If you ever aspire to do run hpde or nring in europe they use turn signals.

[bigjae46]

The problem with turn signals is if you forget to cancel it, enter a turn and the car behind still thinks it’s OK to pass and dive bombs the inside.


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[Obioban]

I did one Audi club event a decade ago, but everyone was so slow that I never wanted to do another.

[r4dr]

Potomac Chesapeake Audi club uses turn signals. They are ridiculed by every other club in the area for it.

Same up here with the local Audi Club chapter. Everyone eyerolls about it.

[timmo]

I don't understand why point bys can't be given by turn signal so we could leave our windows closed. I'd really enjoy heat or AC on track :P
(and it would address the issue above)

My local track (TMP Cayuga) allows that, but it's also a sketchy track. I just go when it's quiet on a weekday, I'd never go on weekends. Quite nice when I'm doing warm-up or cool-down laps, AC goes on and its so nice

[eacmen]

Do BMW owners even know how to use turn signals? Not all cars have turn signals. Mine doesn’t.

Either way, it’s not about point bys or turn signals…it’s about respect or a lack of for your fellow drivers.

I find it interesting when drivers start in point by anywhere groups. You’ll get point bys in odd places. If I’m behind someone, I expect the car in front to give me a pass when they are comfortable and under control. Doesn’t have to be immediately…also don’t need to blast down 2+ straights.

But if you give me a point by…I’m going to take it. If you point me on the inside of a corner, I’m sticking my nose in there and likely coming out a little sideways.


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Yeah its concerning how many clubs put you into a pass anywhere situation without any instruction into where its appropriate.

[bigjae46]

Do BMW owners even know how to use turn signals? Not all cars have turn signals. Mine doesn’t.

Either way, it’s not about point bys or turn signals…it’s about respect or a lack of for your fellow drivers.

I find it interesting when drivers start in point by anywhere groups. You’ll get point bys in odd places. If I’m behind someone, I expect the car in front to give me a pass when they are comfortable and under control. Doesn’t have to be immediately…also don’t need to blast down 2+ straights.

But if you give me a point by…I’m going to take it. If you point me on the inside of a corner, I’m sticking my nose in there and likely coming out a little sideways.


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[Estoril]

Potomac Chesapeake Audi club uses turn signals. They are ridiculed by every other club in the area for it. Makes sense to me, unless the car doesnt have turn signals.

Also some tracks with Audi still require windows down if there is a but in the seat.

Yeah - ACNA does that. Windows down is usually a track owner requirement for emergency worker access to the driver.

[eacmen]

I don't understand why point bys can't be given by turn signal so we could leave our windows closed. I'd really enjoy heat or AC on track :P
(and it would address the issue above)

Potomac Chesapeake Audi club uses turn signals. They are ridiculed by every other club in the area for it. Makes sense to me, unless the car doesnt have turn signals.

Also some tracks with Audi still require windows down if there is a but in the seat.