Brake fluid

[DuncanR]

I wonder if you can run the 6 pot Black & Yellow AP calliper with a larger than 355mm disc (bell & rotor), I know they do a 378mm kit for other applications but what about CSL's?

As a mere novice at this, would it be fair to say that the ONLY point of having bigger/better brakes is so that you can get on them much later in the corner, thus making your laptime quicker ? And if you are racing outbrake another competitor ... assuming that you do indeed get round the corner !!

Would it also be fair to say that if the above rings true, it requires much more skill and judgement in doing the above as timing is more critical, the braking zone is possibly smaller, and the margin for error much less?

If both of the above have any truth about them, would it be fair to say that at 52 years old, 53 in April, my PF's and AP's are more than adequate for what my brain could cope with? :hahaha:

[karbonkid]

How many Ltrs is needed to do a full Fluid replacement?

[mattCSLnut]

We'll find out on Monday @ Bedford TD :hahaha:

As a mere novice at this, would it be fair to say that the ONLY point of having bigger/better brakes is so that you can get on them much later in the corner, thus making your laptime quicker ? And if you are racing outbrake another competitor ... assuming that you do indeed get round the corner !!

Would it also be fair to say that if the above rings true, it requires much more skill and judgement in doing the above as timing is more critical, the braking zone is possibly smaller, and the margin for error much less?

If both of the above have any truth about them, would it be fair to say that at 52 years old, 53 in April, my PF's and AP's are more than adequate for what my brain could cope with? :hahaha:

[alexk]

yep but your AP calliper seals dont:whistle:

Shimmy....
What do you mean ?
I have 4 litres of SRF waiting.
Thank you please

[northernjim]

As a mere novice at this, would it be fair to say that the ONLY point of having bigger/better brakes is so that you can get on them much later in the corner, thus making your laptime quicker ? And if you are racing outbrake another competitor ... assuming that you do indeed get round the corner !!

Would it also be fair to say that if the above rings true, it requires much more skill and judgement in doing the above as timing is more critical, the braking zone is possibly smaller, and the margin for error much less?

alternatively, having larger discs, but driving the same as with smaller, will mean less heat build up in the disc, and less chance of boiling your fluids:beer:

[DuncanR]

We'll find out on Monday @ Bedford TD :hahaha:

Maybe so young Jedi !

[david]

How many Ltrs is needed to do a full Fluid replacement?

1.5 l for a turnaround with 6p front and 4p rear on my Csl to get a perfect and clear fluid change

[karbonkid]

1.5 l for a turnaround with 6p front and 4p rear on my Csl to get a perfect and clear fluid change

Yep F/R APs. Cheers :thumbs:

[s.mac]

1.5 l for a turnaround with 6p front and 4p rear on my Csl to get a perfect and clear fluid change

Thats seems a lot ?

Is ATE blue silicon based ??

[M5 Powered]

As a mere novice at this, would it be fair to say that the ONLY point of having bigger/better brakes is so that you can get on them much later in the corner, thus making your laptime quicker ? And if you are racing outbrake another competitor ... assuming that you do indeed get round the corner !!

Yes, it is all basically to do with heat. The bigger the disc, the more heat it can handle and dissipate when your constantly slamming on the anchors (unless you go the ceramic route).

Also it means the further you can go on the track / race without the feel changing.

From reading round, Thorney supply Alcons (badged CSL CUP) as the preference for racing use mainly because of the sustained sessions and mono-bloc calliper design which is stiffer. But for normal CSL trackday use, AP's are more than good enough and you can use the OEM BMW rear disc.

Best

Jonathan

[david]

Thats seems a lot ?

Is ATE blue silicon based ??

Yep, sorry, it's 0.75 l for turn around, AP bottles are 500 ml and not liter

ATE I don't know, I use only RBF600 or AP600 fluid for my car

[Dan_csl]

As a mere novice at this, would it be fair to say that the ONLY point of having bigger/better brakes is so that you can get on them much later in the corner, thus making your laptime quicker ? And if you are racing outbrake another competitor ... assuming that you do indeed get round the corner !!

Would it also be fair to say that if the above rings true, it requires much more skill and judgement in doing the above as timing is more critical, the braking zone is possibly smaller, and the margin for error much less?

If both of the above have any truth about them, would it be fair to say that at 52 years old, 53 in April, my PF's and AP's are more than adequate for what my brain could cope with? :hahaha:

As has been said the larger rotor's will help with the dissipation of heat plus you get the added benefit of a little more stopping power:thumbs:

As a mere whippersnapper to your 52 Dunc I am 26 but I bet I can't hustle a car around any quicker than you can! :bigcry: :hahaha:

Good thread this, nice to see what's available and what actually works and what doesn't

[TANKSLAPPER]

feck me , Fuchs would have a heart attack :thumbs:

ere Shimmy, this looks like it could develop into to one of those Fuchs BBK threads !

lol

[DuncanR]

Yes, it is all basically to do with heat. The bigger the disc, the more heat it can handle and dissipate when your constantly slamming on the anchors (unless you go the ceramic route).

Also it means the further you can go on the track / race without the feel changing.

From reading round, Thorney supply Alcons (badged CSL CUP) as the preference for racing use mainly because of the sustained sessions and mono-bloc calliper design which is stiffer. But for normal CSL trackday use, AP's are more than good enough and you can use the OEM BMW rear disc.

Best

Jonathan

Cheers Jonathan, im aware that heat is the big killer, but given that some say that OEM 's are fine, and that by going the AP/PF route your are even ...finer !!:hahaha:..thats how Beckham would have put it !
And all things being equal heat wise, the only advantage that a bigger brake setup has is shorter stopping distance surely? What im saying is that eventually if say a bunch of cars are all running various forms of BBK without heat problems, or any other brake related problems, then is the only advantage of say the biggest of the big... later braking? If so, my take on it is that if my bollocks, or anyone elses for that matter ! are bigger than the next guys rotors ... it soon becomes a moot point... doesnt it ??:smt102

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

I expect if you did a Brake test between Std CSL Brakes
and a 355mm BBK Kit then then the stopping distance
between the two would be very similar.

If you then continually repeated the Brake test, over a
period the BBK would still repeat its stopping distances
more or less, whereas the Std Brakes would start to fade somewhat.

Meaning if you are a 'Light' user of the Brakes, which
usually equates to a fast driver then for light Track use,
good Pads, S/S Hoses and some ATF Blue will be
fine.

If on the other hand you ride the Brakes hard, then the
Std Brakes, even with upgrades will be showing signs
of fade in two or three laps of any Track with spirited driving.

On the question of Brake Fluid, for Track Days, ATE Blue
is as good as it gets for the money.

Reason being, that if you require the extra 60 + degrees
dry and 100 odd + degrees in the wet that
Castrol SRF offers, then there is either something wrong
with your Brakes or your Driving.

Regards,

The Gorilla.