Would you buy a Euro E36 M3 as an enthusiast?

[m3f_digger]

There's something wonky going one with every one of those dynos at the low end-- NA M engine are known for wide flat torque curves. Every single one of those is bouncing around a ton at low RPM.



I could post dozens of dynos from dozens of S54s, and they'd look like the one I posted-- I none of them like the bouncy at low RPM those that evolve one.



Or, it's immediately noticeably if you drive a car with a torque dip like that-- drive a BRZ/FRZ/86 and it's hard to not think about the torque dip every single time you rev thought it.



If I drove an S65 with the torque bouncing around like that at low RPM, I'd probably stop driving it till I could diagnose the issue



So-- I don't think any of them are particularly accurate at low RPM.

The evolve dyno obviously had a suspect strapdown as that behavior at the start happens when the car moves around on the rollers or transfers from rear roller to front roller. Ignoring that, the underlying trend is there.



The graphs below look more normal. I'm only using the evolve dyno as there is a lot of graphs around for both the E36 and E46.



the euro s54 is 365Nm peak heres a stock one, noting that the US spec one is 355Nm peak



S54B32





S50B32





At low rpm 2500-3500 the S50 has about 10-20Nm more than the S54 .



Your graph supports this and if you had of done the calculation correctly in post 156 you would have concluded the same.

[m3f_M3AN]

Wait till we start talking about the lazy diff ratios in the e36...

[m3f_digger]

It's great for fuel economy lol

There are lots of things on an e36 that can be better

[m3f_jsquared1013]

Of course, but since he referred to his S52, it was 3.2 vs 3.2.

Ah, I see

[m3f_SOneThreeCoupe]

I would absolutely buy an M3 GT if I could afford it.


I'd take it across the country. I've always wanted to drive Vermont, NH, and Maine up into Newfoundland (yeah, I know I'd have to take a ferry for some of it). I've never personally driven in Idaho, Montana or the Dakotas, nor have I driven the coast of a Great Lake. I think an M3 GT would be the perfect car for all of that.

[m3f_twentyseven]

Stock for stock the s50b32 feels torquier for two reasons:

1. Lighter car

2. DBW in the E46 isn't a direct 1:1 like a cable (unless you remap)



Also, you guys are arguing stock figures with US E46 being handicapped by emissions/headers. Uncork it and then compare.

Eh, Euro is open to 90% from like 1700RPM and CSL to 95%. I'd bet there's some emissions reasons to keep the US models at 70%.

Never knew that. Is that the causality for the 2200rpm 'torque shove'?



I recall that below ~3000 the ICV does most of the throttle work...

[m3f_Hasan Shaikh]

Since I have SMG, changing diff will mess up the speed. So the SMG brain will need to be hacked for the shiftpoints.

Why is that?

[m3f_digger]

I don't think there is a significant difference between the weight of e36 vs 46. The perceived difference will be the shape of the torque curve ie e36 peaks early then tapers off where as e46 has a midrange hump that doesn't taper off as fast/early.

[m3f_twentyseven]

I don't think there is a significant difference between the weight of e36 vs 46. The perceived difference will be the shape of the torque curve ie e36 peaks early then tapers off where as e46 has a midrange hump that doesn't taper off as fast/early.

3175 (US) 3219 (EU) vs 3415.


196lb just between official curb weights... That's approximately the same difference between a coupe and a cabrio, or a coupe and CSL. So yes, the difference in weight is significant.

[m3f_digger]

Surely the e46 and e36 euro is what we are talking about which is 3 or 4 % according to data for both cars I saw yesterday. I'll check another source


https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/deta...POT-ITM-210788

https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/deta...POT-ITM-210750


Other places suggest a 5% difference which is probably less than the overall gearing difference and about the same as the peak torque ratio between euro specs


The CSL is almost 8-10% lighter than regular m3 and approx 5% more power 1-2% more torque. Can't remember what if any differences in gearing

[m3f_SQ13]

The E36 definitely feels lighter because, well, it is lighter.

[m3f_Nugs]

What does a standard e46 M3 weigh in the real world?

My 1994 euro spec M3 was 1450kgs (3195lbs) with a full tank.