95 M3 VS 91-93 Acura NSX???

[m3f_Jkan2001]

NSX all the way, if i could afford to be insured on one even a 91 i'd take it over my 97 m3 sedan. On the flip side i have seen a ton of ragged out early 90 NSX's with dull paint/rock chips/curbed wheels that didn't look anymore impressive than a stock WRX.



The pre 97's are really not that quick, i'd say a tad faster than a stock E36 M3 and definetely slower than a E46. I beat a few 91-93's in my turbo civic (which ran low 13's) back in the day but just the clean look of a shiny red NSX does it for me.

[m3f_Ebb Viciou_a1dff00fa8]

they really didn't get that big of a speed increase in '97. it seems like you're saying there's a huge disparity but they only got a 15hp bump. it's nice but it's not like early NSXes are dogs.



you may have beat some NSXes in your civic in a straight line, but straight line speed is not what that car is about. but make no mistake it is fast (will run 13.5s stock.)



the curves are where hte NSX will walk away from most cars. the E36 M3 can keep up pretty well, though. both cars are very capable.

[m3f_DarkArtist]

Having owned an Integra GSR and driven both the S2000 and the NSX I have great respect for Hondas. They're well designed, well engineered and achieve great performance without big fat tires, all-wheel drive, king kong motors or forced induction.



Given the 280hp limit in JDMs, Japanese manufacturers have taken the handling and braking elements of their cars to a very high level. It amazes me when a Lancer EVO, Skyline GTR or WRX STi can out corner and out brake a 911 Turbo Carrera in a sustained high speed corner. With their government imposed horsepower limitations it's quite impressive that the performance versions of these JDMs are able to compete with cost no object exotics.



Personally, the '91-95 wouldn't be my choice, I'd opt for the post '96 models with the 20 hp increase and improved 6 speed trannies. I drove one of these and it felt much stronger than my '99 M3. Taking a freeway on-ramp I accidentally hit 105mph in third gear. It was just so effortless, I didn't notice how fast I was going!



As for reliability and wear, I have seen some thrashed NSXs here in Los Angeles. My GSR was starting to feel like a tin can at 46,000 miles, while my 67K M3 still feels brand new. I rarely see abused E36 M3s where I work and live and I do see a lot of them. It amazes me that anyone could let an NSX go to pot that way. I don't know if this speaks more to the build quality or pure owner neglect.



If I had the funds, I'd love to have a '97 NSX.

[m3f_Ebb Viciou_a1dff00fa8]

It amazes me when a Lancer EVO, Skyline GTR or WRX STi can out corner and out brake a 911 Turbo Carrera in a sustained high speed corner.



i really hate it when myths like these get perpetuated. it's just flat out not true.



those cars are great performers, but they are not in the range of the 911 Turbo.



they could probably keep up with a base 911 C4 Cabriolet, possibly C4 Coupe. but not a Turbo, not a GT3 and not a GT2.



everybody has certain cars they like to give too much credit to, and for a lot of people the Skyline is that car. the Skyline is not that great of a car. it has amazing tuning potential and it has a lot of grip, but it is very heavy, very bulky and in stock trim has quite a bit of bodyroll.

[m3f_DarkArtist]

[QUOTE=Ebb Vicious]i really hate it when myths like these get perpetuated. it's just flat out not true.



those cars are great performers, but they are not in the range of the 911 Turbo.



Like it or not, I've seen it in video. Maybe I should have mentioned that the drivers of these cars felt on the track they were racing that all-wheel drive may have been an advantage, because the Modena was completely dusted. I was pretty shocked to it myself, and was waiting for the 911 Turbo to create some distance coming out of the corner but even that was negligible. This Turbo was pretty fast too, it ran 12.2 in the 1/4 on a 90° day.



Over the course of the laps it was evident in this race that the Skyline was able to easily out brake the Porsche entering the corner and any advantage the 911 Turbo had in the straights was completely negated by the apex of the turn, at that point the Skyline was just sitting on the Turbos tail waiting for the exit. This wasn't a Nismo either just a factory GTR.



I agree, on the surface one would think that a heavy, underpowered car like the Skyline would have no chance against the 911 Turbo, but on this day the Porsche couldn't shake it from its tail for over three laps of trying. I don't know if this result would be typical, but it did happen and I was very surprised.



Before you go around discounting posts you don't agree with remember that theres not much difference between myth and dogma.

[m3f_Ebb Viciou_a1dff00fa8]

what video are you referring to?



sorry but i chalk this one up to 911 driver < skyline driver.

[m3f_Black328iS_4f40b49a23]

i really hate it when myths like these get perpetuated. it's just flat out not true.



those cars are great performers, but they are not in the range of the 911 Turbo.



they could probably keep up with a base 911 C4 Cabriolet, possibly C4 Coupe. but not a Turbo, not a GT3 and not a GT2.

.





i can vouch that the 911 C4 cab doesnt handle that well. Tons of body roll. Our M3 and S2000 EASILY outhandle it.....just thought id throw that in there

[m3f_Black328iS_4f40b49a23]

also, i agree....Skyline= overrated. Theyre only desired so much because of their rarity and tuning potential.

[m3f_Ebb Viciou_a1dff00fa8]

the first time i took the M3 on the track i caught and passed a 996 Cabriolet.



i also caught and passed an STi.



i didn't catch the EVO 8 because it was being driven by an instructor who is a much better driver than i. >_<

[m3f_salty_80d4b8491b]

the first time i took the M3 on the track i caught and passed a 996 Cabriolet.



i also caught and passed an STi.



i didn't catch the EVO 8 because it was being driven by an instructor who is a much better driver than i. >_<

An STI compared to my stock low mileage M3 with new S03's is no comparison. The STI has better brakes, more power and more grip. It is a time warp machine. You are a better driver than the goomer in the STI.

[m3f_DarkArtist]

what video are you referring to?



sorry but i chalk this one up to 911 driver < skyline driver.

Ebb,



There's a series of videos out of Japan called Best Motoring, a lot of places sell them online so you should be able to find them. They feature the famous "Drift King" Tsuchiya. I think you'd enjoy them, really fun stuff.



The one I'm referring to is called "Porsche 996 Turbo, The King?" This is a cool video because they take a 996 Turbo, NSX, Skyline and a 360 Modena and run them thru a Gymkana circuit. Then they do a 1/4 mile showdown between the 4 cars which is really fun. First between the Porsche and the Skyline, then between the Modena and NSX. I think you can guess who won those matchups. The first Modena run was a 12.4 with the AC on! The final between the Modena and the 996 was interesting.



Then they put these four cars on the track against a Vette &#91;not a Z06, rats!&#93;, a JDM WRX and a few others. The drivers are all current and ex pro racers, and they line the cars up in staggered fashion according to HP and perceived 1/4 mile times, so the 996 was in the back. I'll concede that the Porsche was able to go from last to first pretty rapidly, but the shock I elluded to earlier was that after passing the Skyline, the Porsche just couldn't shake it.



The interesting thing was that after this race, they did a three car race between the 996 Turbo, the Modena and a 450hp race prepped Skyline Nismo. Being that the Porsche and Ferrari had sustained some hard driving prior to this matchup and this Skyline was supposedly much more potent than the GTR in the previous race, the drivers thought the Nismo should win easily. Well, it was almost a complete replay of the earlier 911/Skyline duel. The Skyline couldn't get past the Porsche and the Porsche couldn't lose the Nissan.



Try and find these videos and DVDs, they're entertaining and eye-opening. I also have some where an E46 M3, an E39 M5 and some other JDM cars race against each other. The drivers kept talking about how well the M5 handled, but were put off by its heavy feel on the track. No surprise since it's such a big car. They thought the E46 was pretty damn good and fun to drive. These guys seem to prefer rear wheel drive cars like the M3, 996 and NSX over all-wheel drive cars like the Skyline, WRX and Lancer Evo because they allow the driver to "drive" and have more fun in the process.



I found some links, have a look:



http://www.247motoring.com/shop/shop_showbook.php?id=best0003&client=247Motoring



http://ew1.com/cgi-bin/sshp/shop.cgi?categories=&searchtext=best+motoring&c=se arch.htm&ud=%3C%21+ud%3E&storeid=1&Submit=Go%21

[m3f_Ebb Viciou_a1dff00fa8]

Re: STi vs. M3, the STi is very top-end dependent. turbo lag is your enemy on the track.



Re: Videos,



i have seen best motoring videos, but not that one. they are pretty entertaining but drifting is retarded.



i'm still going to chalk that battle being so close up to drivers. if the same driver drove the stock Skyline around the track a few times and then the 911 Turbo a few times he'd be putting in faster times with the 911 Turbo, noticeably faster not just one or two tenths.



japanese motor press does like to make the japanese cars look extra-super double-plus good compared to the european exotics.

[m3f_Ebb Viciou_a1dff00fa8]

btw schuey did get an Enzo. they were originally only going to make 349 but schuey was left out of that list so then they upped it to 399 and one of those 50 went to him.

[m3f_DarkArtist]

Re: STi vs. M3, the STi is very top-end dependent. turbo lag is your enemy on the track.



Re: Videos,



i have seen best motoring videos, but not that one. they are pretty entertaining but drifting is retarded.



i'm still going to chalk that battle being so close up to drivers. if the same driver drove the stock Skyline around the track a few times and then the 911 Turbo a few times he'd be putting in faster times with the 911 Turbo, noticeably faster not just one or two tenths.



japanese motor press does like to make the japanese cars look extra-super double-plus good compared to the european exotics.



Well the guy driving the Porsche was a former Formula Japan Champion and edits a Porsche publication in Japan so I'd say he's a pretty good driver and one motivated to win this race, he even said so himself before the race commenced. He also seems to win most of the races I've seen in their videos.



I don't understanding the lure of drifting myself, but it was the "Drift King" in the Skyline giving the Porsche so much trouble. From what I remember the Porsche did indeed post the fastest laps so you have a point, but I never said the Skyline would have the fastest laps, just that it was able to out corner the Porsche. On a different track with different weather conditions maybe this wouldn't be the case, but on this day it was quite clear.



After all the slogging, they proclaimed the Porsche still the king. Watch the video and come to your own conclusion. I will say your close mindedness is quite amusing.

[m3f_Ebb Viciou_a1dff00fa8]

ok i was being civil with you and you have to insult me. very nice.



if you want to see closed mindedness go to a Camaro or Viper board. i'm not being "closed minded", i'm stating that all evidence says that a 996 Turbo should pull out a good chunk of time (several tenths) every lap on the cars you mentioned.



you, otoh, keep citing this one video as if it proves that the Skyline is as fast as a 996 Turbo. there are lots of reasons why that Skyline was albe to hang onto that 996 Turbo during that video. the simplest explanation is drver competency. maybe he had the flu.



another possibility is that the porsche driver was running a defensive line to make sure the skyline could not get around him. it is possible for an otherwise slower car to get in front by taking a sub-optimal line which puts him in front early in the turn, and maybe the Porsche driver didn't want to have to try to get back around.



my point is that one video is not proof.



all imperical, numerical data says the 996 Turbo is a much faster car.



in your original post you were actually indicating that those cars were *faster*, and that's what prompted me to say "no, they aren't." you have provided no evidence to the contrary and now you resort to insults.



i will not be replying to you again unless you can act like an adult.



also, i'd rather have an NSX than any other japanese car ever made.