Cold start rattle 2-3 seconds then gone.

[BL92]

Thanks for posting an update and also for this thread, the 2-3 second rattle clip in this thread is what finally got me 100% motivated to take on the job of replacing my bearing.

In the end I was a few days late on doing it as cylinder #5 spun on my car. I did get lucky as there did not appear to be any damage (that I could catch with a nail) to the journal, but my first oil Analysis after doing the bearings and putting 1600KM (1000 miles) on the oil did show elevated Lead (19ppm) and Copper (12ppm). Nothing shinny in the oil or the oil filter, but I plan to send this oil in once I hit 1600KM to see if there is a trend in the wrong direction.

Did the shop ever comment on the condition of your crank? In your big update post here the bottom set of bearing look like they might have spun.

What year is your car ? Did you swap out the oil pump? Cause the oil pump might be the 1, with the Alloy piston in it
04 to 06, used a telfon coated, aluminum piston that didn't work at all, that is why 04 to 06 are more likely to spin shells

latest 2015 update has a diamond coated piston


Source, should automatically start at 36min mark

https://youtu.be/_93z82NQZV4?t=2189

[Andratch]

Thanks for posting an update and also for this thread, the 2-3 second rattle clip in this thread is what finally got me 100% motivated to take on the job of replacing my bearing.

In the end I was a few days late on doing it as cylinder #5 spun on my car. I did get lucky as there did not appear to be any damage (that I could catch with a nail) to the journal, but my first oil Analysis after doing the bearings and putting 1600KM (1000 miles) on the oil did show elevated Lead (19ppm) and Copper (12ppm). Nothing shinny in the oil or the oil filter, but I plan to send this oil in once I hit 1600KM to see if there is a trend in the wrong direction.

Did the shop ever comment on the condition of your crank? In your big update post here the bottom set of bearing look like they might have spun.

My crank was still unharmed, luckily. I grilled them on that specifically given just how much copper was visible, but they shared some pictures (which unfortunately I forgot to save) that showed it was fine.

[Ramage]

Hey folks, just another update, and probably my last update until I put a few thousand miles on the car:

This is still resolved, no signs of the noise returning. Even after the car sat for 2 weeks, no noise on startup. So, I still 100% attribute the fix to the bearings/bolts/torques.

Thanks for posting an update and also for this thread, the 2-3 second rattle clip in this thread is what finally got me 100% motivated to take on the job of replacing my bearing.

In the end I was a few days late on doing it as cylinder #5 spun on my car. I did get lucky as there did not appear to be any damage (that I could catch with a nail) to the journal, but my first oil Analysis after doing the bearings and putting 1600KM (1000 miles) on the oil did show elevated Lead (19ppm) and Copper (12ppm). Nothing shinny in the oil or the oil filter, but I plan to send this oil in once I hit 1600KM to see if there is a trend in the wrong direction.

Did the shop ever comment on the condition of your crank? In your big update post here the bottom set of bearing look like they might have spun.

[Andratch]

Hey folks, just another update, and probably my last update until I put a few thousand miles on the car:

This is still resolved, no signs of the noise returning. Even after the car sat for 2 weeks, no noise on startup. So, I still 100% attribute the fix to the bearings/bolts/torques.

[Andratch]

Hey guys. Bumping an old thread. I’m experiencing the same soft knock from 2k rpm along with a knock on start. My BE bearings and ARP bolts were installed about 3,000 miles ago… anyone know the batch number of the bad RB bearings? The shop I had this done is in a whole other state so I can’t even take that route. Will call them nonetheless.

I don't know the batch, but let me call my shop and ask. I do know that my RBs were purchased from bimmerworld (not that they have anything to do with it, just for tracking purposes) in December 2023.

[GreyBirdM3]

Hey guys. Bumping an old thread. I’m experiencing the same soft knock from 2k rpm along with a knock on start. My BE bearings and ARP bolts were installed about 3,000 miles ago… anyone know the batch number of the bad RB bearings? The shop I had this done is in a whole other state so I can’t even take that route. Will call them nonetheless.

[BRiley]

Andratch Just wondering how that last used oil analysis turned out. How high were the wear metals?

Will, for what it's worth, my BE's looked exactly like Andratch bearings. I had less than 2k miles on them. My UOA from 300 miles before they spun showed 15ppm copper, and 64ppm of lead. That was the first oil change after bearings were done, so we were going to go another 1700 and do another UOA, but I never made it.

[Andratch]

Andratch Just wondering how that last used oil analysis turned out. How high were the wear metals?

I forgot to send it out once I got the picture of the gnarly bearings. But with those bearings only being 200 miles old, I think the answer to your question would be "very high."

[QUOTE=tdott;n284505]

[Will]

Andratch Just wondering how that last used oil analysis turned out. How high were the wear metals?

[tdott]

My takeaway from this whole experience isn't really anything to do with BE. The shop and Bimmerworld will have to figure that out. I have a simpler, more smooth-brained takeaway:

The symptom (the cold start rattle) was caused from an issue around the bottom end 'area.' I can't and won't say for sure if it was the bearings or improper installation...and I'll likely never know. But replacing the bearings and bolts and retorquing has eliminated the noise. If someone experiences a similar noise, they should take a look at their bearings, bolts, and torques and assess from there.

Agree'd but there is this herd mentality to cause hysteria and speculation incorrectly blaming the part.

[Andratch]

Just trying to catch up on this, but my initial thoughts is siding with Mr R.Collins right now, we've seen many times before of sketchy claims with no data or root cause analysis done, just jumping to conclusions and blaming a part.

Those that can and have provided details often found the root cause to not be the actual bearings themselves rather install error or mistake. Unfortunately this case involves second hand info and only what the shop has shared. Without seeing front and back of all bearings, pictures of the end caps and rod bolts all laid out neatly, it's really only a guessing game. Also since this is an S54 we would have needed to see the state of the oil pump.

There are too many things not shared, that could be covered up or omitted to save the shops reputation, obviously I'm not here to assign blame, just state the different possibilities.

S54 rod bearing replacement procedure has two added complications that S65 don't have.

1. Oil pump needs to be removed and installed correctly
2. mid-cycle rod bolt change

Getting either of those wrong would need to failure.

Then there is the added complication depending on rod bolt chosen, re-using the OEM early rod bolts. OP doesn't mentioned if his 2005 engine had the later style bolts (engine not replaced) and instead new OEM bolts were used. If new OEM bolts were use, I do see him mentioned that the shop thinks they may have used ARP torque spec, which probably isn't repeated 3 times to stretch the bolt like what OEM calls for and uses an angle torque spec which is more complicated and takes more time. Perhaps if the OEM bolts weren't stretched, after a period of time, they loosen, or simply was no longer at the correct spec. (Unless they tracked how much torque it took to remove the oem bolt after, it's hard to know how they can claim it was torqued correctly when checked).

Other potential issues could be oil pump or oil pickup related, which could lead to oil starvation and would cause worn bearings like the condition those BE bearings appear to be in.


Anyway my take away would be that a failure with only this info would be inconclusive and could be manipulated by omission of key facts.


I'm not concerned about BE Bearings having any issue at the moment. I am confident the ones I have installed will not be prone to failure. Until we have more facts, this changes nothing imo.

My takeaway from this whole experience isn't really anything to do with BE. The shop and Bimmerworld will have to figure that out. I have a simpler, more smooth-brained takeaway:

The symptom (the cold start rattle) was caused from an issue around the bottom end 'area.' I can't and won't say for sure if it was the bearings or improper installation...and I'll likely never know. But replacing the bearings and bolts and retorquing has eliminated the noise. If someone experiences a similar noise, they should take a look at their bearings, bolts, and torques and assess from there.

[tdott]

I am not sure if Collins is doing the right thing here saying that there is no problem, especially since he commented on said FB post that he does NOT measure S54 shells, so even if there was a problem, he wouldn’t know?

Just trying to catch up on this, but my initial thoughts is siding with Mr R.Collins right now, we've seen many times before of sketchy claims with no data or root cause analysis done, just jumping to conclusions and blaming a part.

Those that can and have provided details often found the root cause to not be the actual bearings themselves rather install error or mistake. Unfortunately this case involves second hand info and only what the shop has shared. Without seeing front and back of all bearings, pictures of the end caps and rod bolts all laid out neatly, it's really only a guessing game. Also since this is an S54 we would have needed to see the state of the oil pump.

There are too many things not shared, that could be covered up or omitted to save the shops reputation, obviously I'm not here to assign blame, just state the different possibilities.

S54 rod bearing replacement procedure has two added complications that S65 don't have.

1. Oil pump needs to be removed and installed correctly
2. mid-cycle rod bolt change

Getting either of those wrong would need to failure.

Then there is the added complication depending on rod bolt chosen, re-using the OEM early rod bolts. OP doesn't mentioned if his 2005 engine had the later style bolts (engine not replaced) and instead new OEM bolts were used. If new OEM bolts were use, I do see him mentioned that the shop thinks they may have used ARP torque spec, which probably isn't repeated 3 times to stretch the bolt like what OEM calls for and uses an angle torque spec which is more complicated and takes more time. Perhaps if the OEM bolts weren't stretched, after a period of time, they loosen, or simply was no longer at the correct spec. (Unless they tracked how much torque it took to remove the oem bolt after, it's hard to know how they can claim it was torqued correctly when checked).

Other potential issues could be oil pump or oil pickup related, which could lead to oil starvation and would cause worn bearings like the condition those BE bearings appear to be in.


Anyway my take away would be that a failure with only this info would be inconclusive and could be manipulated by omission of key facts.


I'm not concerned about BE Bearings having any issue at the moment. I am confident the ones I have installed will not be prone to failure. Until we have more facts, this changes nothing imo.

[Andratch]

Funny how this looks exactly like my BE bearings. Such a coincidence. Where did you send them for investigation? BE?

The shop that replaced them is working with Bimmerworld to determine next steps. The shop's main concern is getting reimbursed, since they warrantied my repair. Bimmerworld will then go back to BE I assume. I have a good relationship with the shop, so i'll message them in a week or so to see what they did.

[BRiley]

Here is mine for comparison.

[BRiley]

!! BIG UPDATE !!




New WPS bearings going in, and sending the BE's back for investigation.

Funny how this looks exactly like my BE bearings. Such a coincidence. Where did you send them for investigation? BE?