Cold start rattle 2-3 seconds then gone.

[bmwfnatic]

The BE bearings will be replaced by WPC bearings, provided by Bimmerworld. They are going to use ARP bolts as well...we used OEM bolts last time. IIRC there was some speculation going around M3Cutters that on the later S54s, the ARP bolts don't take up the complete bore, but everyone else seems to be successful with ARP so I'm taking the path of least resistance. I suspect that the shop was not accustomed to using OEM bolts, and followed the ARP torque spec with OEM bolts, and the two are different.

You can use ARP bolts for the M11 early engines up to 12/2002 based on your pictures you have an 05 or 06, which has the M10 bolts. ARP doesn’t sell bolts for those, period.

They do for the Euro S50, which some vendors like Bimmerworld stupidly market as being made for the S54, but there is no such mention on the ARP website.

It has been documented on this forum and elsewhere that using the S50 ARP bolts in S54 rods makes them out of round, which will certainly accelerate your rod bearing wear. Use Genuine…

[Andratch]

Update - Car is going in tomorrow to have the rod bearings re-replaced. They are going to warranty the work, so this should be a "free fix" which is nice.

The BE bearings will be replaced by WPC bearings, provided by Bimmerworld. They are going to use ARP bolts as well...we used OEM bolts last time. IIRC there was some speculation going around M3Cutters that on the later S54s, the ARP bolts don't take up the complete bore, but everyone else seems to be successful with ARP so I'm taking the path of least resistance. I suspect that the shop was not accustomed to using OEM bolts, and followed the ARP torque spec with OEM bolts, and the two are different.

Either way, new bearings and the proper torque spec should take care of this. I suspect the car won't be done until Monday, as they're trying to take time to make sure this is the root cause of the noise and really seal it up "for good."

While the pan is off, they're going to inspect for any broken pieces of chain guide and anything else they can see chain related just to triple check that this isn't related to anything else on the front end.

[Andratch]

Listened to it just now and there does seem to be a soft knock, RPM dependent sound. Easy check for a bearing issue is to pull the oil filter and inspect the pleats.

I took an oil sample for blackstone before changing the oil last week (as suggested by another member) - I didn't see much in the old filter, but then again it had only been in there for about 100 miles. I'll see what blackstone has to say. Fortunately, the shop that did the bearings agreed to warranty the work and replace them with WPC treated bearings.

Interested to hear more about a BE stop sale on S54 bearings - their site shows them available.

Mine are the Clevite bearings - not sure if that's different. But the stop-sale notice came from Bimmerworld. It's not mentioned on their website, but they called the shop after the order was placed to let them know and change the order.

[Slideways]

Did you listen to the video I posted on the last page? The knock can now be heard throughout the rev range, it’s just much louder until oil pressure builds.

I spoke to Kassel about this at length…I’ve had my turned kit on with their CSL reflash for a year prior to the sound starting, so I have a hard time aligning the two as a cause.

Listened to it just now and there does seem to be a soft knock, RPM dependent sound. Easy check for a bearing issue is to pull the oil filter and inspect the pleats.

[mtpktz]

!! INTERESTING UPDATE !!

The shop went to order replacement bearings to do warranty re-work, and bimmerworld told them that the brand I have (I can't recall which, i'll figure it out) has a sales hold because they're investigating a manufacturing defect. Apparently this particular batch is returning a high rate of spun bearings! Might be on to something here....

I don't think my situation is that bad yet, but I'm going to stop driving it until I drop it off on the 24th.

Should be BE bearings as someone else said that they recently had a bad batch.

Not too sure that is your issue since the video I posted of the DINAN car with 40k miles makes a similar noise and I have heard one other car with a CSL tune make that noise as well, until the tune was updated.

Interested to hear more about a BE stop sale on S54 bearings - their site shows them available.

[Andratch]

Should be BE bearings as someone else said that they recently had a bad batch.

Not too sure that is your issue since the video I posted of the DINAN car with 40k miles makes a similar noise and I have heard one other car with a CSL tune make that noise as well, until the tune was updated.

Did you listen to the video I posted on the last page? The knock can now be heard throughout the rev range, it’s just much louder until oil pressure builds.

I spoke to Kassel about this at length…I’ve had my turned kit on with their CSL reflash for a year prior to the sound starting, so I have a hard time aligning the two as a cause.

[Slideways]

!! INTERESTING UPDATE !!

The shop went to order replacement bearings to do warranty re-work, and bimmerworld told them that the brand I have (I can't recall which, i'll figure it out) has a sales hold because they're investigating a manufacturing defect. Apparently this particular batch is returning a high rate of spun bearings! Might be on to something here....

I don't think my situation is that bad yet, but I'm going to stop driving it until I drop it off on the 24th.

Should be BE bearings as someone else said that they recently had a bad batch.

Not too sure that is your issue since the video I posted of the DINAN car with 40k miles makes a similar noise and I have heard one other car with a CSL tune make that noise as well, until the tune was updated.

[Andratch]

!! INTERESTING UPDATE !!

The shop went to order replacement bearings to do warranty re-work, and bimmerworld told them that the brand I have (I can't recall which, i'll figure it out) has a sales hold because they're investigating a manufacturing defect. Apparently this particular batch is returning a high rate of spun bearings! Might be on to something here....

I don't think my situation is that bad yet, but I'm going to stop driving it until I drop it off on the 24th.

[maupineda]

Make sure they know what they are doing or it would be more expensive than finding another source. That input from them already raises big red flags.

[Andratch]

I would be worry too, torque procedure is finicky if they used OE bolts. Do you know for sure they followed proper procedure? This is why I like working on my car myself.

I do hear the knock, not normal for sure.

Interesting timing on your comment...I just spoke with the original shop that did the bearings. We used OEM bolts on this, and they think they may have toruqed them using the ARP specs. I don't know the difference in that, but could be on to something there...

They are going to do a work-warranty re-check of the car in a few weeks, I'm keeping it in the garage until then.

[maupineda]

I would be worry too, torque procedure is finicky if they used OE bolts. Do you know for sure they followed proper procedure? This is why I like working on my car myself.

I do hear the knock, not normal for sure.

[Andratch]

I'm still worried it could be a 'bottom end' sound. A shop replaced my rod bearings earlier this year (amongst other service items, so it's been hard to nail to one thing), and the sound has appeared since then. I'm wondering if they've failed, as I hear a noise north of 2k rpm consistently. Can't hear it when the engine is under load, but i also have an exhaust and turner intake so it could be drowning it out.

IMO, The noise sounds more consistent with the tempo of bottom end (1:1 speed, not double speed like top end). You can hear it at 8-13 seconds and 28-31 seconds in my video below.

https://youtu.be/M651aTLfZ_g

I took a sample of the oil that was in it over the couple hundred miles I drove since the rod bearing change. I'll send it off to blackstone and see.

[maupineda]

Sorry, by M1 I mean Mobil 1, those grades are readily available from even Walmart. They are really inexpensive but good. I change oil yearly and drive not more than 3k a year. I would start there before dumping more money. Give your climate conditions, avoid 0w40

[Andratch]

You can try a different oil grade. 0w or 5w flows much better for cold start, a good mid point in my opinion is a quality 5w50 grade. Look for a high HTHS number with at least 1k of zinc and phosphorus content and you are good to go.

I tried 0w40, 5w50 and 15w50 M1, the car has been happiest with the latter but I do not live in a cold climate. If I were my choice would be 5w50.

10w60 is too thick and takes longer to warm up in my experience. I also don’t track the car and the M1 oils have high HTHS numbers which is what you need for high rpm use.

Edit: with 15w50 the cars does heat up in about 5 mins to 75C, good enough to use the car with confidence, also in hot climate (35-37C) in a canyon run the oil temp remains at 100C, and cools down to 90 if I relax very quickly. With 0w40 I did notice I could run 110-115C in hot days, that is why I chose 15w50. it also flows better at cold than 10w60 despite the 15w rating. I also use Ceratec for piece of mind and maybe some extra protection during cold starts.

I live in southern Texas - summers are about 38C, 'winters' are about 7C. That said, the car is in an enclosed garage that stays pretty warm, and I have no issue letting it warm up for a minute before driving cold.

I *just* put brand new BMW-brand 10W60 in it from FCP, but I'd be open to trying something else...of the weights you mentioned, do you have a weight and brand of oil that you'd recommend for my temp ranges? Car won't be tracked.

[maupineda]

You can try a different oil grade. 0w or 5w flows much better for cold start, a good mid point in my opinion is a quality 5w50 grade. Look for a high HTHS number with at least 1k of zinc and phosphorus content and you are good to go.

I tried 0w40, 5w50 and 15w50 M1, the car has been happiest with the latter but I do not live in a cold climate. If I were my choice would be 5w50.

10w60 is too thick and takes longer to warm up in my experience. I also don’t track the car and the M1 oils have high HTHS numbers which is what you need for high rpm use.

Edit: with 15w50 the cars does heat up in about 5 mins to 75C, good enough to use the car with confidence, also in hot climate (35-37C) in a canyon run the oil temp remains at 100C, and cools down to 90 if I relax very quickly. With 0w40 I did notice I could run 110-115C in hot days, that is why I chose 15w50. it also flows better at cold than 10w60 despite the 15w rating. I also use Ceratec for piece of mind and maybe some extra protection during cold starts.