Electronic suspension for the E46 M3

[cobra]

Does anyone make electronically adjustable shocks for the E46 M3?

A lot of new cars come with comfort and sport settings to change the driving character. I haven't seen any kits for the E46. Seems like it would be cool.

[terra]

I think Bilstein makes / made one for the non-M. Perhaps that could be made to work with the M3. Nothing M-specific as far as I'm aware.

[skristedja]

I looked a while ago. This is the only one I've found:

https://tractivesuspension.com/shop/car/bmw/e46-incl-compact-1998-2007/stand-alone-electronically-adjustable-shocks-10/

Prices:

http://jr-garage.com.ua/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ACE_R-ACE-pricelist_2019_V1.0-.pdf

Not cheap and I presume not worth it

[Obioban]

Does anyone make electronically adjustable shocks for the E46 M3?

A lot of new cars come with comfort and sport settings to change the driving character. I haven't seen any kits for the E46. Seems like it would be cool.

I think... it's a gimmick.

There is a correct amount of shock damping for a given frequency. Adjustable shocks, in theory, let you adjust your shock damping for your specific spring rates/corner weights. Once you've found that, there's no actual reason to adjust.

Modern cars certainly allow you to set them stiffer. People equate stiff (and no body roll) with “sporty”, so that makes them happy. But, IMO, it's just praying on ignorance.

... which is probably why over the last decade I've gone from quad adjustable to double adjustable to single adjustable to non adjustable (but valved for my corner weights and spring rates).

Aftermarket electronic suspensions seem even worse, as generally they have 2-3 preset values. If you have non stock corner weights or spring rates, rapidly no setting is going to be correct (or, if you start out with a setup for a different car, no setting will start out correct).

[T.J.]

I’ve played with adjustable dampers and found the responsiveness of high settings fun but at the expense of ride quality. I could see the appeal of getting that feeling every now and then without committing to it full time.

[D-O]

I think... it's a gimmick.

There is a correct amount of shock damping for a given frequency. Adjustable shocks, in theory, let you adjust your shock damping for your specific spring rates/corner weights. Once you've found that, there's no actual reason to adjust.

Modern cars certainly allow you to set them stiffer. People equate "stiff" (and no body roll) with sporty, so that makes them happy. But, IMO, it's just praying on ignorance.

... which is probably why over the last decade I've gone from quad adjustable to double adjustable to single adjustable to non adjustable (but valved for my corner weights and spring rates).

Aftermarket electronic suspensions seem even worse, as generally they have 2-3 preset values. If you have non stock corner weights or spring rates, rapidly no setting is going to be correct (or, if you start out with a setup for a different car, no setting will start out correct).

Agreed. But - I have heard from a fairly reliable source that the the "Magnaride" system in the the new Corvette is very good. I have not driven one myself, so I have no first hand experience.

D-O

[Obioban]

Agreed. But - I have heard from a fairly reliable source that the the "Magnaride" system in the the new Corvette is very good. I have not driven one myself, so I have no first hand experience.

D-O

Magaride is doing a different thing— softening/firming as the bump event occurs/ends, hundreds of time per second.

[D-O]

Magaride is doing a different thing— softening/firming as the bump event occurs/ends, hundreds of time per second.

Indeed, but I think it fits the discussion.

[Obioban]

Indeed, but I think it fits the discussion.

Yes… but not what’s being talked about this thread or offered anywhere on the aftermarket that I know of.

[cobra]

I think... it's a gimmick.

There is a correct amount of shock damping for a given frequency. Adjustable shocks, in theory, let you adjust your shock damping for your specific spring rates/corner weights. Once you've found that, there's no actual reason to adjust.

Modern cars certainly allow you to set them stiffer. People equate stiff (and no body roll) with “sporty”, so that makes them happy. But, IMO, it's just praying on ignorance.

... which is probably why over the last decade I've gone from quad adjustable to double adjustable to single adjustable to non adjustable (but valved for my corner weights and spring rates).

Aftermarket electronic suspensions seem even worse, as generally they have 2-3 preset values. If you have non stock corner weights or spring rates, rapidly no setting is going to be correct (or, if you start out with a setup for a different car, no setting will start out correct).

I think you're right, to a degree. My motorcycle (BMW S1000XR) utilizes electronic valves front and rear to adjust damping. In the soft setting, I can ride over bumpy roads or bots dots on the highway without even feeling them, but it lacks chassis control when riding aggressively. Then in stiff mode, the whole feeling of the bike firms up and it's able to attack the corners with good control and grip. As a whole, I ride about 75% in the soft setting and 25% in the stiff setting - it's great having the option. I'm sure that one of those settings (probably soft mode) is compromised from a technical tuning perspective, but it does work. Similarly, it would be nice in the M3 to have a soft setting suitable for rough roads and then tighten it up to an 'optimized' setting for canyon carving or track use. And all this operates on the open-loop principle! As soon as you add more sensors you can do way more cool stuff.

I also think there is no "correct" damping or spring rate. There is a range which is dependent on the needs/wants of the driver. If there was right and wrong, suspension tuning wouldn't be a thing.

The benefit of external adjustments is the ability to fine-tune once installed. Even on my single adjustable Konis, I like being able to easily adjust the handling bias with the turn of a knob (or the removal of a shock, difficult compression, questionable turning of an internal adjuster, and hoping and praying that it is set right in the case of the Koni rears).

[Obioban]

I think you're right, to a degree. My motorcycle (BMW S1000XR) utilizes electronic valves front and rear to adjust damping. In the soft setting, I can ride over bumpy roads or bots dots on the highway without even feeling them, but it lacks chassis control when riding aggressively. Then in stiff mode, the whole feeling of the bike firms up and it's able to attack the corners with good control and grip. As a whole, I ride about 75% in the soft setting and 25% in the stiff setting - it's great having the option. I'm sure that one of those settings (probably soft mode) is compromised from a technical tuning perspective, but it does work. Similarly, it would be nice in the M3 to have a soft setting suitable for rough roads and then tighten it up to an 'optimized' setting for canyon carving or track use. And all this operates on the open-loop principle! As soon as you add more sensors you can do way more cool stuff.

I also think there is no "correct" damping or spring rate. There is a range which is dependent on the needs/wants of the driver. If there was right and wrong, suspension tuning wouldn't be a thing.

The benefit of external adjustments is the ability to fine-tune once installed. Even on my single adjustable Konis, I like being able to easily adjust the handling bias with the turn of a knob (or the removal of a shock, difficult compression, questionable turning of an internal adjuster, and hoping and praying that it is set right in the case of the Koni rears).

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/oscda2.html

I haven’t touched my koni’s adjustment knobs since I got them dialed in for my car(‘s frequencies).

[Lukem3]

The amount of R&D that would have to go into this project, along with the low quantity of people that would ever buy this system, I doubt it's ever going to happen. Plus if you look at parts in a newer vehicle that gets mass produced with electronic suspension, you will see individual components at the price of what you think the full system would cost. It's too expensive and with how old the cars are no manufacture would ever see a profit on it.

Your best bet is getting fully adjustable coil overs. You can set stiffness and height anytime you're planning on driving the car different. Yeah it's more consuming but it's our only option for having an adjustable suspension setup. Some of these newer systems have adjustable swaybars too but that's also never gonna make it to our car

Sent from my SM-G996U1 using Tapatalk

[cobra]

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/oscda2.html

I haven’t touched my koni’s adjustment knobs since I got them dialed in for my car(‘s frequencies).

But how do you know what is "dialed", and is that applicable to every scenario? Surely your car isn't perfect on the street and the track with no compromise?

Seems like it would be neat to adjust that on the fly depending on your situation 🤓

[Obioban]

But how do you know what is "dialed", and is that applicable to every scenario? Surely your car isn't perfect on the street and the track with no compromise?

Seems like it would be neat to adjust that on the fly depending on your situation 🤓

I know this goes against conventional wisdom, but I’d argue the optimal damping is the same on the street and track…

… with the possible exception that as shock fluids heat up during track use you need a stiffer shock setting to get the same result as a softer setting on the street.

But, minimized body motion is good for comfort and handling. Stiffer springs can be useful on track (though stiffer springs = less grip, unless they’re necessary, and stiffer springs require different damping than softer springs… but that’s not what you were asking.

But, shorter answer: I’ve been running the same shock settings (back when I had adjustable shocks on the coupe) on the street and track for years. It is pretty optimal for both 😜

[heinzboehmer]

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/oscda2.html

I haven’t touched my koni’s adjustment knobs since I got them dialed in for my car(‘s frequencies).

Apologies if this is too off topic, I can create a separate thread if need be. But, how do you dial in something like that without being subjective?

I understand that you want a system that's critically dampened, but I can't think of an objective way to get to that point. I'm imagining that it's just a bunch of trial and error.

Edit: I think what I wrote above sounded a bit too passive aggressive/skeptical and didn't mean it that way. I'm genuinely curious to hear the method you (and others) use to dial in suspension. So far, I've just been blindly turning knobs based on what I think will make it feel "better".