E46 M3 values vs. E9X M3 values

[Tbonem3]

Can I get your thoughts/predictions on the rising values of these M cars?

Let's say both cars are of relatively equal in spec/mileage (perhaps a little higher for old e46)/condition.

Pre facelift coupe 6spd vs pre facelift e92 dct is my particular concern.

Factors to consider:

Production #s
E9x last N/A most peak motorsports bmw (but more complex/expensive)
E46 from peak design/culture era that holds a special place in most of our hearts (best aftermarket/knowledge/DIY friendly)
Perhaps rising gas prices play a role. Perhaps not because those of us that can afford these cars can afford rising gas prices?
Not concerned with big fixes like RACP/vanos/bearings/actuators - more concerned with general trends

Thanks!

[Doost]

I can't help but feel the E46 M3 will command higher values in the future. I think it holds a place between two automotive periods; it represents the end of a golden age of analogue simpler raw sports cars from the 90s that are selling for eye watering prices (look no further than BAT, etc) And the beginning of the 00's, where higher HP and more and more complicated electronic aides took over. I've never driven an E9X, but I wonder if in the future it will be a little more lost in the shuffle? I also feel the E36 M3 is getting lost in the shuffle of those 90s car values.

[usdmej]

imo history will not favor how heavy and refined the E9X M cars are relative to the E46


it's nothing i'd bet against tho, either car has collector car value potential if you're into that kinda thing

[lemoose]

Pre facelift coupe 6spd vs pre facelift e92 dct is my particular concern.

Couple questions. Why only pre-facelifts for both? And why 6spd vs DCT?

[Obioban]

I think both will do reasonably well, at least for as long as driving a gas car is feasible. After that, everything other than individual historic cars may start to go down rapidly. That said, I thinking in the period of gas car viability, the e46 will do better.

The e9X has two main benefits over the e46: speed and comfort.

As both cars age, the speed difference between them becomes almost inconsequential. As in...

e46 M3 (numbers from Car and Driver long term test of a 6mt car):
0-60: 4.5
Quarter mile: 13.1 @107

e92 M3 (numbers from Car and Driver long term test of a DCT car):
0-60: 4.3
Quarter mile: 12.7 @113

Model S Plaid (Car and Driver):
0-60: 1.9
Quarter mile: "less than 9 seconds"

In short, both are slow as shit, compared to a modern sports car or electric sedan.

What sets older sports cars apart is driving experience. When you're buying a car for driving experience, the comfort/civility of the e9X actually works against it (as does the size/weight).

Working in favor of the e46...
-it's the "right size". This is hard to quantify, but it becomes obvious when you're in a car that's too big. 991 was when the 911 became to big, e9X was when the M3 became too big, etc.
-S54 is spectacular-- it makes every best engine list that comes up. S65 is pretty good, but it's just not as eventful (understressed). It doesn't make nearly as many of those lists :P
-Subjective, but commonly held: e46 M3 is one of the styling high points of BMW
-Also subjective: e46 M3 has the best interior of all the M3 generations
-easier to work on, which becomes increasingly important as cars get older
-all of them are either manual, or a hydraulic system removal away from being manual.

e46 M3 is better than the e9X in some ways, and worse in other. But, the way it's worse don't really matter from a classic car perspective. Nobody complains that a Ferrari GTO 0-60 is 5.6 seconds or that it's not comfortable for the daily commute.

[S3diment]

Respectfully, I don't think most E46M3 owners appreciate how good the E9X M3 is - both in Manual and DCT (and arguably better in the latter). Of course if you're use to driving the E46, then anything else except for a P-car/Lotus is going to feel like a behemoth. Not saying that one is better than the other, but I don't think the E92 is as far behind as most E46 people think. I can point out a number of things with the E46 platform that are downright frustrating. Ultimately it boils down to personal preference.

As far as values are concerned, the E9X M3 market is already trending up. 1-2 years ago you could pick up low mileage examples for around $30k, now higher mileage examples are selling for high-20s, low-30s.

Source: Own both

[oceansize]

I think the difference will ultimately be inconsequential if the following are correct because so many of each were produced when compared to something like an e30:

1. Very low mileage
2. Color combo
3. transmission
4. options
5. Original or OEM+ (carbon fiber roof, csl box)
6. Clean title
7. No rust

With that said when the CSL can be legally imported that particular e46 kills e9x.

[Tbonem3]

I can't help but feel the E46 M3 will command higher values in the future. I think it holds a place between two automotive periods; it represents the end of a golden age of analogue simpler raw sports cars from the 90s that are selling for eye watering prices (look no further than BAT, etc) And the beginning of the 00's, where higher HP and more and more complicated electronic aides took over. I've never driven an E9X, but I wonder if in the future it will be a little more lost in the shuffle? I also feel the E36 M3 is getting lost in the shuffle of those 90s car values.

Ya good insight. There's no point to E36 when the E46 is the best E36 ever made, though lower production #s and nostalgia prob help. E30 is the first and God's chariot, with low production #s.

E9x is heavy and more complex than I'd like, but it is the final end to the golden era IMO, but made to sell in a modern world.

imo history will not favor how heavy and refined the E9X M cars are relative to the E46
it's nothing i'd bet against tho, either car has collector car value potential if you're into that kinda thing

Agreed on both counts, though not concerned with the last point. I still think it's possible the e9x keeps up, esp since it's not bottoming out like the E46 did 5 years ago. That might be because people saw which way the wind was blowing before it could bottom out. Perhaps it's just inflation/economy - not sure.

Couple questions. Why only pre-facelifts for both? And why 6spd vs DCT?

Because I have a prefacelift 6spd I'm willing to sell. Because I'm getting older, more arthritic, and already have a absolute riot of a 6spd to relive my childhood in.


All that said, I'm watching what's going on in terms of trends. I also can just keep increasing the value of my pre-facelift 6spd through sweat equity and enjoy it since the E46 M3 is the ultimate imo. There's also always the possibility of economic crash and/or gov regulations that can affect the future values of both.

Let's hear more thanks!

[Tbonem3]

Obioban

Yes, great points and things I already consider. I'd be going for more comfort and ease of driving plus v8 F1 noise.

S3diment

Agreed! I have 2 E46s and am starting to tire of it. By itself, my 2002 is getting nice, but it's light years from my 2004.

I also think we may only have another 20 years to enjoy these cars, so want different experiences. We may have even less to enjoy them the way we want if govs enact stricter noise/modification rules

[Obioban]

Obioban

Yes, great points and things I already consider. I'd be going for more comfort and ease of driving plus v8 F1 noise.

S3diment

Agreed! I have 2 E46s and am starting to tire of it. By itself, my 2002 is getting nice, but it's light years from my 2004.

I also think we may only have another 20 years to enjoy these cars, so want different experiences. We may have even less to enjoy them the way we want if govs enact stricter noise/modification rules

That's why I have the e39 M5. I don't like it nearly as much as the M3, but it add variety to the fleet, comfort, V8 noises, and is still nice to work on.

... and, sometimes, it's nice to take it because it's easy/comfortable :P

In a lot of ways, the e9X M3 is kind of the half way point between e46 M3 and e39 M5.

[usdmej]

if we're still allowed to drive extremely gross polluting cars like 60s muscle cars, then i don't think the govt is gonna go after us owning this era of vehicles anytime soon

in the future the barrier to keeping ICE vehicles on the road will be access to gas imo. it's clear most consumer cars will be EVs and the infrastructure between gas and electricity availability will likely flip flop in response to it (ie charging stations will be ubiquitous and there will be little to no incentive to own/operate a gas station).


owning an ICE 20years from now will probably become a niche luxury hobby similar to owning a horse imo

[maw1124]

I think they'll both do "fine" value wise but the E46M is just special. And special doesn't come along very often. There's something to the raw simplicity of the E46M straight 6 that the more powerful, quicker shifting E9X doesn't deliver. I'd argue no V8 can deliver, actually (I'd be wrong... forgot about the CLK Black Series). I wouldn't throw either away but the E46M is the one that brings the most joy for me. I have faster V8's but they're not as fun and engaging. And for hobby cars, fun and engagement is what you're buying more than speed, comfort or power -- buy an SClass AMG for that.

maw

[yhp2009]

I also think we may only have another 20 years to enjoy these cars,

What a nightmare. Been thinking about this more recently.
If you have 2 m3s i'd personally get the e9x as the second. I think the v8 is the secret sauce in that equation that will always make it special. Should age very well and compliment your e46

[usdmej]

a big question is if collectors will value popular mods for this platform

how will a ($3-5k for a replica, $10k+ for oe) mod be perceived and valued when it clearly transforms how the car "feels"

[Obioban]

a big question is if collectors will value popular mods for this platform

how will a ($3-5k for a replica, $10k+ for oe) mod be perceived and valued when it clearly transforms how the car "feels"

On other platforms, it seems like (good) modifications are more and more tolerated/value add with each year that passes. It seems like the people that value 100% original cars are dying out.