Community Feedback Requested Re: EuroConnex / Epoustouflant

[terra]

Looking for some feedback on how the community as a whole feels about these Group Buys. Over at nam3forum we're not fundamentally opposed to commercial entities in directly hosting group buys, however the intention was for vendors to be giving back to the community in some capacity. Personally, I am concerned that the EuroConnex group buys are not really in keeping with that spirit. As best as I can tell there has been no real contributions to this community from the member / group in question. I also find it problematic that pricing is not openly posted and requires disclosing personal information at an unaffiliated site to even see the pricing details. And although I haven't fully delved through the sheer mass of threads, I understand there have been some delivery and communication issues in some instances.

All that said, although I am an admin here, I don't wish to force my opinion over everyone else's and wanted to collect some feedback. Do we find these Group Buys to be a net benefit? Are there any rules the community would like implemented (for example, pricing information listed on this forum, limit to X number of threads per month)? Or are we overall happy with things as they stand?

[Cubieman]

I for one am happy to have these groupbuys, the products are sometimes the type of thing one wouldn't find very easily like the diffusers/Ring&Pinion he has hosted.

I guess the contributions would be access to otherwise hard to find items/manufacturers and of course quantity pricing. That last Supersprint GB likely gave those on the fence an opportunity to finally get some SS pieces on their vehicle.

I'm not saying it's all %100 good in my mind and you bring up some valid points I haven't thought about. But all-in-all for me I find these GB's to a positive thing for this forum currently.

[old///MFanatic]

Nobody is making anyone buy if they don’t like it. Pricing on some unique items and products featured has been a benefit to the E46 community imho. Someone accusing him of not giving a company’s owner direct contact info and thus is not contributing to the forum is unprofessional (apparently he didn’t have it anyway, but through an app).

I do have issue not disclosing a Group Buy pricing unless you give your contact info and sign onto their site.
If someone is going to buy then it’s acceptable to have them log in to their site but not mandatory before. You want to market on the forum then disclosing GB price is the fare of posting on a free forum.

[mtpktz]

I fully support having access to these Group Buys and absolutely see it as a net benefit to the community. Quite a few members saw net benefit from the recent SuperSprint GB IMO.

If a member doesn't want to be part of a GB or sign up for EuroConnex, they don't have to participate. Just my $0.02.

[oceansize]

No harm done IMO. I was in on the first batch of diffusers for the GB Matt did from Rene at CarboProject and I received a defective one. I did eventually get a refund, months later (today as a matter of fact), from Rene but it took a little too much prodding on my end to get things moving along. With exchange rates I lost $27 but is what it is.

I'll make a suggestion for anyone who reads this thread and goes the damage claim route.

1. UPS picked up the package did their evaluation and denied the claim (the diffuser was packaged poorly IMO).
2. UPS reps said a letter was sent to Rene telling him about the situation and that he should contact them.
3. Rene at CarboProject said no letter was received (I don't really trust UPS so certainly possible).
4. UPS will discard the sellers merchandise or simply leave it at your local warehouse until the seller contacts UPS.
5. It is imperative that you the buyer push Matt or the Seller to make contact with UPS concerning the damage claim otherwise nothing will happen.

[keljos]

Agreed with the points many have made above. If you have issues with the format of the GB or the conduct of the member organizing them, then you do not have to participate and stand to lose nothing. I personally have gotten a lot of value out of the SS GB that was run recently. I can understand the frustration of members who noted issues with communication or shifting expectations, although it's probably fair to assume that it was not always within the control of the organizing member to avoid those issues. Either way, I don't expect flawless execution of all community driven GBs. I consider occasional speed bumps to be the cost of admission in return for discounted parts.

Regarding the obfuscation of pricing without signing into Euroconnex, I can also understand why this rubs some people the wrong way. I personally do not mind the additional hurdle. I'm not entirely familiar with the need for this policy, although if it indeed protects the organizer from legal headaches (and thus our collective access to these discounted GBs), then it's an additional step i'm willing to take.

[terra]

Thanks for the input guys. Obviously still early and probably will be more responses in the coming hours / days, but clearly a trend towards seeing them as a net benefit even if there are some issues.

Either way, I don't expect flawless execution of all community driven GBs. I consider occasional speed bumps to be the cost of admission in return for discounted parts.

That said, let's be real. These aren't "community driven GBs". They are being driven by an individual or group of individuals for profit as the primary motivation.

[tnord]

personally, I've seen too many issues with these GBs, and too much wink-wink-nod-nod stuff going on to have faith that I'm not going to throw money into some account and my product will never show up. It doesn't seem like the savings are great enough to justify the risk to me. I'll pay the extra $100 from a reputable vendor.

As long as it's all kept in its own section of the forum it doesn't really bother me though.

[SQ13]

Can we keep the GB interest threads in the GB sub forum please?

[Tbonem3]

I don't like what has become of groupbuys. They're not really group buys, or perhaps they're an evolution where one person turns it into a business. Isn't this basically what Leighton was doing? That said, I support entrepreneurship and free market. I guess it's more of a culture thing for me. Prefer someone doing some basic comms with a company for a certain discount for X buyers for free cause they want one too. Oh well, times change.

[usdmej]

That said, let's be real. These aren't "community driven GBs". They are being driven by an individual or group of individuals for profit as the primary motivation.

as far as i can tell, it's literally one guy, Connex is his company and he picks which one he refers to himself by based on how it benefits him

he started the supersprint group buy fear mongering the community about emissions laws changing and how this could be their last chance to get supersprint products.
after getting buy in, he quietly cleaned up all that rhetoric from his posts

he doesn't take criticism of his business model well and has pursued people via PMs to argue with them



i personally have no interest in doing business with him. but overall the community does benefit from the discounts he gets. i just think he needs to be treated like a vendor

[rbg]

Have not done any GB business with the person, but totally agree with two previous posts. From what I see there is no GB spirit and it looks like a vendor store with some discount on the products they stock if you register with them.

[K-Dawg]

I don't know much about the guy or his business practices because I'm not interested in the products he pedals, but if his business results in savings for the community and he's not screwing anybody, does it matter if he's making a profit? I've never participated in a group buy for the "spirit"

Also, he does own NA M cars that he appears to be passionate about, does participate here in threads other than his own, and seems to be involved in his local car scene. That's a lot of effort if he's only in it for the profit.

[jbfrancis3]

Group buys have historically been a grassroots effort (aka done by the ordinary individual) so that's why it rubs some (myself included, initially) the wrong way. If you think about, however, its still a group buying as we see EuroConnex doing batches of products at meaningful discounts. There's a greater level of sophistication, organization (hell, a significantly greater level of organization) and accountability. All of that is something to be celebrated.

Personally, I am a champion for EuroConnex due to:
- the leverage he's able to achieve with manufacturers for group buys that results in substantial discounts. Look at the Supersprint GB: entire system w/ V1 header's for $5k, wasn't it?
- developed infrastructure with website and tie-in with the supplier/manufacturer ordering systems
- good relationships with manufacturers
- he is responsive and attentive, and shows a good level of transparency
- don't forget EuroConnex has two lines: factory direct (Curated Specials, discounted from retail) and group buys (greater discount). We don't see him pushing the factory direct stuff nearly as much, so he is staying true to the GB spirit.

Certainly, if we see a tidal shift of EuroConnex into more a retail-type operation then their status and how EuroConnex is positioned on this forum should be evaluated. It could go that way based on the way Epoustouflant conducts himself (in positive manner). I would hope he continues to maintain a good level of transparency with any such evolution.

I personally find the complaining here about not being able to post pricing openly to be completely lacking common sense. To me, its complaining for the sake of complaining. You all should recognize full-well why its not helpful to go peppering the internet with product pricing 20%, 30% or more lower than MSRP and/or similar vendors. If not, the answer is it creates headaches for the manufacturers and the relationship with their other suppliers, and trying to manage the losing game of race to the bottom on price.

Other disclosures: I don't know Epoustouflant personally, I've only interacted with him in posting. I've purchased one thing through him: a SS section 2.

[repoman89]

he started the supersprint group buy fear mongering the community about emissions laws changing and how this could be their last chance to get supersprint products.
after getting buy in, he quietly cleaned up all that rhetoric from his posts

Yeah I found all that pretty suspect back when it happened, is it really deleted? Wow. It was all decent enough deals as it is, there was no need for any of that for sure, even if it was true.

The main GB I was interested in seems like it was advertised and is now DOA (Schrick), so meh I guess

That said I typically enjoy reading the user’s posts as a regular forum user. Seems like it should be clear when they are acting as a vendor though, which they are in all the group buys.