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S54 running (slightly) rich

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    S54 running (slightly) rich

    So I've been sort of chasing this for a while but as it's kind of minor haven't really gone too hard. There's plenty of threads on the internet about mixtures albeit usually running lean due to vaccum leaks and the like.

    My S54 is running slightly rich though. Not enough to flag codes or anything. In fact it runs and drives perfectly. The only give away is when cold it's slightly smelly particularly noticeable in underground garages. Presumably this is because it's open loop (although do the LTFT still not apply even in open loop?). Once warmed up all is good.

    LTFTs both sit about -7 to -9% when read via typical OBD apps or 0.93 to 0.91 in INPA or the ECUworx DME tool. I reset the adaptations and within about 20-30 minutes of driving they're back to where they were. e.g. after a clear then drive just now:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	2021-09-20 17_00_10-INPA - Loader_  MSS52 DS0 for S54 Version 1.01.png Views:	0 Size:	135.5 KB ID:	127570

    Running rich has a smaller list of things to look at. Car has about 100k kms on it so not high mileage and is pretty well looked after. I've had it for >10 years since about 60k kms

    1) I have checked fuel pressure at 5 bar at idle with (vaccum?) hose removed and about 5.7 with it fitted and engine running which is right, well at least with the limits of reading my gauge. Thinking about that, shouldn't pressure drop with vacuum if that's a vacuum hose? I might have the numbers the wrong way around here - it's been a while since I measured. At the time they seemed right when I looked it up though.
    2) Cleaned the MAF as a bit of an easy thing to try with little expectation it would do anything and it didn't. It is a Bosch unit and appears to the be original factory one as the plastic stamping showed 5/04 (car is a 08/2004 build)
    3) There are no codes and there have never been any rich/lean type codes.
    4) O2 sensors are original and likely the original factory parts although when cold they're ignored and it does run rich based on smell although that's hard to quantify and all vehicles run a bit richer when colder.
    5) As both banks show essentially the same value, it largely rules out specific injectors, cylinders or banks (i.e. O2 sensors). So needs to be something common to both banks i.e. MAF or fuel pressure seem the main culprits.
    6) Entire drivetrain etc is stock. Even the DME version etc look like the factory ones. Only "mod" is a Bluebus

    I did also recently do a Beisan VANOS install along with valve adjustment, plugs, oil change, air/oil/fuel filter etc although this problem has been around for a long time before this - it just hasn't really been a priority to look at really.

    Any ideas? I was thinking MAF but don't want to throw parts at it. I'm not sure what else it could be though. USD$150 delivered (for me) for a MAF is not going to break the bank if the general opinion of the knowledgable people here think it worth a punt.
    Last edited by Shonky; 09-20-2021, 01:21 PM.

    #2
    Looks like I might have to measure the fuel pressure again. Perhaps it was 5 bar without hose and 4.3 with which would make more sense and be correct.

    Comment


      #3
      Maybe the cats just aren't doing as good of a job anymore? I don't think you can definitively say that your car is running rich unless you plug a wideband into a bung or use a sniffer on a dyno. If the car runs great, good adaptation/timing #s, good MPGs, etc, then I wouldn't worry about anything.

      While your miles aren't high, due to age, it might be a good idea to start refreshing some sensors anyway, like pre cat o2s, MAF, CPS/TPS.
      DD: /// 2011.5 Jerez/bamboo E90 M3 · DCT · Slicktop · Instagram
      /// 2004 Silvergrey M3 · Coupe · 6spd · Slicktop · zero options
      More info: https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...os-supersprint

      Comment


        #4
        Every vehicle will smell like raw gas when you start it up. It runs rich because the engine is cold and also the cats are not heated up.

        Comment


          #5
          Right so maybe the cats aren't as good with age (I think that's a bit unlikely) and yes cars do run richer at start up but it's certainly smellier than what I'd call normal but that's very subjective of course.

          BUT why would the LTFTs go negative then?

          If the cats weren't working properly somehow and the DME was pulling fuel incorrectly then it would be running slightly lean.

          If the smell was normal then also why would the DME pull fuel. Again it would be slightly lean as a result?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Shonky View Post
            Any ideas? I was thinking MAF but don't want to throw parts at it.
            During cold opened-loop running, the DME used intake air temperature and other sensing data to compute the injected fuel volume. So check the temperature sensor.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by sapote View Post

              During cold opened-loop running, the DME used intake air temperature and other sensing data to compute the injected fuel volume. So check the temperature sensor.
              That might explain the warm up smell but that wouldn't affect the long term fuel trims would it?

              As I see it, it's injecting x amount of fuel but the O2 sensors are reporting that it was too much which ultimately means not enough air (i.e. it's reading higher than the actual) or too much fuel (i.e. more than it requested).

              I have noticed the intake air temp seems somewhat high sometimes. That comes from the MAF though doesn't it?

              Comment


                #8
                Yes maf
                DD: /// 2011.5 Jerez/bamboo E90 M3 · DCT · Slicktop · Instagram
                /// 2004 Silvergrey M3 · Coupe · 6spd · Slicktop · zero options
                More info: https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...os-supersprint

                Comment


                  #9
                  I got the Same here, same Milage and same LTFT. I use an Air Intake KIT self desigend and self 3d printed. So i maybe it comes with that. Car runs great, even on Track.

                  Broken MAF can also do crazy things ... vill. do you have the opportunity to try to get one?

                  it would be possible to connect an external sensor without replacing the MAF. But what for? You can see the value in real time.

                  In the end, to really know if there is a problem in the mix related to the apatation. You need a wideband sensor.

                  Cheers

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hmmm I logged this data yesterday using the Car Scanner app (unfortunately not OBD Fusion which seems to be the preferred tool). There's some wierd spikes in the data. I'm not sure if this is the app or the adapter (OBDlink MX so should be decent quality) or something else

                    Intake air temp looks OK actually apart from the spikes

                    All the other numbers like speed, coolant temp, rpm, module voltage, advance don't have these spikes. Ones like instanteous fuel consumption, LTFT etc do. However the LTFT is effecttively an output of the DME's calculations so if that's spiking that seems more likely data corruption.

                    I'd expect an intake temp reading of 178C would throw a code too. It spikes to 178C each time whilst the airflow spikes to the same 559.82 g/s each time

                    The spikes don't correlate with each other so seems more like corrupted readings than anything. However they read the same value each time....

                    Click image for larger version  Name:	2021-09-21 16.28.13.jpg Views:	0 Size:	46.0 KB ID:	127793

                    Comment


                      #11

                      yes that looks strange. Do you have the possibility to use another application for logging? maybe the tips are too short for an error filing, looks almost like a connection problem. maybe you can also order a MAF to test.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I can't see how 178C would be an acceptable intake air temp in terms of flagging a code.

                        I will try the OBDlink app which appears to be a branded version of OBDfusion. I also have some other BT OBD devices including an old Chinese one that seems dependable. One thing at a time but I am suspecting the app if anything.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi Shonky,

                          Have you figure it out why the car run rich at start up? I have similar issues after putting back my stock OEM header with two brand new pre-cat O2 sensors.

                          I also cleaned throttle body, clean MAF, two new TPS followed by a reset adaptation.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I don't have any fix, no.

                            I did throw a brand new Bosch MAF from FCP as I was doing an order at the time. That did not fix it and I'd have to check the numbers but it ended up about a percentage point worse than I had before. ie slightly richer again. Im still running that new MAF after many months. I might revert to the old one without a clear and see if the values come up a small amount.

                            That variation is OK though and I'd put that simply down to minor variances which is the whole idea of the LTFTs. If everything else was right it would be the difference between something like 0.99 and 0.98 multiplicative factors.

                            I did also clean the MAF previously with zero change. Of course replacing it mostly negates that. So all I know right now is it's highly unlikely to be the MAF.

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