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    S54 Stroker Kits - PRO/CON

    I've been wanting to start a thread on this topic for a while as I'm hard pressed to find a suitable resource on this issue. Since is the main forum I go to for advice, parts, knowledge etc this is the best place to appeal to.

    Having a rough plan that will eventually lead me to cams (still unsure on 288s vs 280s) after everything I've done engine wise, I wanted to weight the options of getting a ground up build (or doing it myself should that opportunity arise). My goal is basically as close to 400whp NA on pump gas, while keeping some of the daily reliability.

    On a pure cost benefit analysis for power NA vs FI is basically a non issue, unless you factor in the complete package (heat management, weight etc). Those are things I'm not willing to give up as the car will maintain its daily use and see probably 5 or more track days a year. All maintenance has been done, save for top side reinforcement of the RACP with which I'm struggling with as I want a 4 piece tie in to the factory bolts but don't really want a half cage due to weight (CMP has this but would like something that looks a bit nicer).

    Main suppliers of stroker kits I've narrowed down to 3:
    -Carbahn (Steve Dinan)
    -VAC
    -Lang Racing

    Having had some quick correspondence with CarBahn, I like the idea of getting what is basically a zero mile stroked S54 (I think they only offer a 3.3L for street/performance uses) that also gets run on an engine dyno before shipping out. Power without any supporting mods is considerable with cams circa 370-390whp depending on metrics used. I'm not sure if they would also apply their correction to the crank for rod bearings that they talked about (Steve Dinan) in a recent Smoking Tire Podcast.

    Things to consider beyond the new hotness of a stroker and its power are running costs compared to stock and reliability. Admittedly I'm a bit a novice to the platform having only gotten my car in 2019, but I dove in feet first and did my best to do it the "right" way. I don't mind the cookie cutter way of doing things if it's the best way to go.

    I dont know of many members that have stroker kits on their cars but would definitely appreciate the feedback and their findings, as well as anyone else with work/use experience on the issue.
    2006 Silber Grau Metalizat ZCP 6 MT
    M-texture (F2AT) - Turner CSL V2/CatCams 280 272/SSv1/SS Sec1/Sec2 dual res/SCZA TI (raw) - FatCat stage 3 ult 400f/784r - Vorshlag - EC7r 18x9.5 ET35/CRS 275/35/18 - RacingBrake BBK/MileEnd CSL bumper/Vorsteiner Trunk/Cobra Nogaro Circuit Mtexture/GC RCA/YURKan Cages/Hotchkiss/Vibra-technics/

    IG: https://www.instagram.com/htrlo/

    #2
    As Lang once said on the subject - "How often do you want to rebuild it?"

    Comment


      #3
      Don't get VAC. Ever. Seriously.

      If you can reliably always get 93 Octane, bump the compression ratio to 12:1. If you've done that, the 288/280 cams seem to be the ones that make sense. If you're stuck with 91, stick with stock compression and 280/272 cams. I wouldn't try to compensate for that with Ethenal of you're in a 91 octane location... that's a road that always eventually leads to the same place.

      Carbahn vs Lang is a tougher call. I think I'd lean towards Lang, for the wider bearings, but they don't have an entirely stellar reputation. My general feeling is that you'd get faster turn around and lower chances of assembly error going with Carbahn, but the Lang racing setup may be slightly more reliable once you get it, assuming it's assembled correctly.

      People have been over (just) 390rwshp (SAE dynojet) without a stroker/with stock compression ratio. If that's really your power goal, you might be better served going full bolt on. Messing with the internals is when people start to have issues (though admittedly that's less likely going the Carbahn route).

      2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
      2012 LMB/Black 128i
      2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

      Comment


        #4
        I don't understand the appeal of strokers. Marginal gains for massive investment with decreased reliability not to mention opening up the bottom end yet this is your daily?

        If I were to go that route I would just go 12 or 13:1 and run race gas full time, 288s and open exhaust on a weekend only car.

        Also the pump gas argument is one of my favorites not unlike that of say a bodybuilder wanting to compete but feeding his body junk foods. To make 40 more hp to the wheels with not much increase in torque and a lower redline not to mention more maintenance doesn't compute in my book. I wouldn't want to take away from the characteristics of this particular inline six.

        If I were in your position I would first do cams, airbox and proper exhaust first to see if you'd be content with that. You can then decide to throw money at this experiment.

        2003.5 MT JB/B - CSL SCHRICK SUPERSPRINT EISENMANN JRZ SWIFT MILLWAY APR ENDLESS BBS/SSR DREXLER KMP SACHS RECARO AR SLON MKRS GSP DMG KARBONIUS CP AUTOSOLUTIONS KOYO

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jet_dogg View Post
          If I were in your position I would first do cams, airbox and proper exhaust first to see if you'd be content with that.
          Not money down the drain, either, since the stroker will really need those to perform.

          2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
          2012 LMB/Black 128i
          2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Obioban View Post

            Not money down the drain, either, since the stroker will really need those to perform.
            Exactly that, transferable. I just realized we basically said the same thing too.
            2003.5 MT JB/B - CSL SCHRICK SUPERSPRINT EISENMANN JRZ SWIFT MILLWAY APR ENDLESS BBS/SSR DREXLER KMP SACHS RECARO AR SLON MKRS GSP DMG KARBONIUS CP AUTOSOLUTIONS KOYO

            Comment


              #7
              Too little return for the investment IMO.

              I'd sooner drop weight from the vehicle than try to get from 350whp to 400whp
              DD: /// 2011.5 Jerez/bamboo E90 M3 · DCT · Slicktop · Instagram
              /// 2004 Silvergrey M3 · Coupe · 6spd · Slicktop · zero options
              More info: https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...os-supersprint

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Obioban View Post
                Don't get VAC. Ever. Seriously.

                If you can reliably always get 93 Octane, bump the compression ratio to 12:1. If you've done that, the 288/280 cams seem to be the ones that make sense. If you're stuck with 91, stick with stock compression and 280/272 cams. I wouldn't try to compensate for that with Ethenal of you're in a 91 octane location... that's a road that always eventually leads to the same place.

                Carbahn vs Lang is a tougher call. I think I'd lean towards Lang, for the wider bearings, but they don't have an entirely stellar reputation. My general feeling is that you'd get faster turn around and lower chances of assembly error going with Carbahn, but the Lang racing setup may be slightly more reliable once you get it, assuming it's assembled correctly.

                People have been over (just) 390rwshp (SAE dynojet) without a stroker/with stock compression ratio. If that's really your power goal, you might be better served going full bolt on. Messing with the internals is when people start to have issues (though admittedly that's less likely going the Carbahn route).
                Why does VAC have this reputation, with respect only to the stroker. There are a few channels, very indy that I've uncovered that run stroker S54s but they are not in road car applications only track oriented (that right away puts it off for me, but the question still stands). Is it due to their existing or past performances that we are now attributing this reputation to, or something else?

                In Toronto, and Canada as whole, there are areas where 94 and 93 is available from Petro Canada and Esso respectively. The former bought out Sunoco which was the only outfit to serve 94. However from tunning and Hassans own words, the fuel is poopoo, cars with 91 in California are running more timing that what he was able to see on the dyno with my car. In short, 93/94 is available.

                The allure to Carbahn is because of Steve's record and reputation, their facilities, and its the lowest increase in displacement with an increase in stroke of 1mm which results in 3.3L and change. Getting whats effectively a zero mile engine etc. However, the most appropriate quote to my needs that I got was 15k USD with my current engine as core supply, which in CDN ruples is a considerable amount of money not far off what I paid for my car almost 2 years ago.

                Currently as the car sits (sig), I have everything except for the cams to really make the bolts on work to their potential. The way I go about doing anything on the car is to do it once but do it right. I dont mind waiting and planning for moves that will really stay on the car. That's the purpose of this thread, gather information and experience from various members.
                2006 Silber Grau Metalizat ZCP 6 MT
                M-texture (F2AT) - Turner CSL V2/CatCams 280 272/SSv1/SS Sec1/Sec2 dual res/SCZA TI (raw) - FatCat stage 3 ult 400f/784r - Vorshlag - EC7r 18x9.5 ET35/CRS 275/35/18 - RacingBrake BBK/MileEnd CSL bumper/Vorsteiner Trunk/Cobra Nogaro Circuit Mtexture/GC RCA/YURKan Cages/Hotchkiss/Vibra-technics/

                IG: https://www.instagram.com/htrlo/

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by jet_dogg View Post
                  I don't understand the appeal of strokers. Marginal gains for massive investment with decreased reliability not to mention opening up the bottom end yet this is your daily?

                  If I were to go that route I would just go 12 or 13:1 and run race gas full time, 288s and open exhaust on a weekend only car.

                  Also the pump gas argument is one of my favorites not unlike that of say a bodybuilder wanting to compete but feeding his body junk foods. To make 40 more hp to the wheels with not much increase in torque and a lower redline not to mention more maintenance doesn't compute in my book. I wouldn't want to take away from the characteristics of this particular inline six.

                  If I were in your position I would first do cams, airbox and proper exhaust first to see if you'd be content with that. You can then decide to throw money at this experiment.
                  Daily is a loose term. With the onset of the Covid post apocalyptic world, I work from home. Car sees driving only on roads I deem worthy, the beauty of living in Toronto is you see a temperature delta of around 70C from plus 40C to -30C which destroys any asphalt freshly laid in less than 3 years. Not to mention salt. Car doesn't see winter salt/moisture. So I use it in the summer, rain or shine as daily as I need it for now.

                  Airbox, full exhaust all done. Cams are the missing piece and even with that im struggling with the peaky 288s vs more useable 280s. I dont know of anyone on here that has sampled both enough to give a detailed review of the different driving characteristics.

                  And as to your general question of why? Why not is the simple answer. The gains per Carbahn are not marginal, 360whp with stock cams, 390whp with thats without supporting mods. The barrier to all of this is the initial investment and running costs of the new setup. Obviously money no object I'd love to throw quite a bit at this car and see what sticks but that's not my case. All things considered, it would be nice to have.
                  2006 Silber Grau Metalizat ZCP 6 MT
                  M-texture (F2AT) - Turner CSL V2/CatCams 280 272/SSv1/SS Sec1/Sec2 dual res/SCZA TI (raw) - FatCat stage 3 ult 400f/784r - Vorshlag - EC7r 18x9.5 ET35/CRS 275/35/18 - RacingBrake BBK/MileEnd CSL bumper/Vorsteiner Trunk/Cobra Nogaro Circuit Mtexture/GC RCA/YURKan Cages/Hotchkiss/Vibra-technics/

                  IG: https://www.instagram.com/htrlo/

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Tbonem3 View Post
                    Too little return for the investment IMO.

                    I'd sooner drop weight from the vehicle than try to get from 350whp to 400whp
                    I fully agree with this bro, I have a lot of work in that department, I havent done any weight savings save for the muffler, wheels, and airbox for now. Seats I'm pretty much set on and will go for Nogaros as soon as I have some questions answered from demontweeks.

                    This is not an immediate call to arms on the stroker issue, but more of a gathering of info. It's not that the original config of the car with all the parts on is not enough, but rather can it be made slightly better by this. That's why I'm looking to consider all things, measure 94385739 times cut once.
                    2006 Silber Grau Metalizat ZCP 6 MT
                    M-texture (F2AT) - Turner CSL V2/CatCams 280 272/SSv1/SS Sec1/Sec2 dual res/SCZA TI (raw) - FatCat stage 3 ult 400f/784r - Vorshlag - EC7r 18x9.5 ET35/CRS 275/35/18 - RacingBrake BBK/MileEnd CSL bumper/Vorsteiner Trunk/Cobra Nogaro Circuit Mtexture/GC RCA/YURKan Cages/Hotchkiss/Vibra-technics/

                    IG: https://www.instagram.com/htrlo/

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by CrisSilberGrau View Post

                      In Toronto, and Canada as whole, there are areas where 94 and 93 is available from Petro Canada and Esso respectively. The former bought out Sunoco which was the only outfit to serve 94. However from tunning and Hassans own words, the fuel is poopoo, cars with 91 in California are running more timing that what he was able to see on the dyno with my car. In short, 93/94 is available.

                      The allure to Carbahn is because of Steve's record and reputation, their facilities, and its the lowest increase in displacement with an increase in stroke of 1mm which results in 3.3L and change. Getting whats effectively a zero mile engine etc. However, the most appropriate quote to my needs that I got was 15k USD with my current engine as core supply, which in CDN ruples is a considerable amount of money not far off what I paid for my car almost 2 years ago.

                      Currently as the car sits (sig), I have everything except for the cams to really make the bolts on work to their potential. The way I go about doing anything on the car is to do it once but do it right. I dont mind waiting and planning for moves that will really stay on the car. That's the purpose of this thread, gather information and experience from various members.
                      I'm not sure why your 94 aki is shittier than our 91 aki, ethanol is used to bring up our octane rating to that spec.

                      Originally posted by CrisSilberGrau View Post

                      Airbox, full exhaust all done. Cams are the missing piece and even with that im struggling with the peaky 288s vs more useable 280s. I dont know of anyone on here that has sampled both enough to give a detailed review of the different driving characteristics.

                      And as to your general question of why? Why not is the simple answer. The gains per Carbahn are not marginal, 360whp with stock cams, 390whp with thats without supporting mods. The barrier to all of this is the initial investment and running costs of the new setup. Obviously money no object I'd love to throw quite a bit at this car and see what sticks but that's not my case. All things considered, it would be nice to have.
                      Looking at the dyno thread your car was making 320 with the euro headers, have you retuned with the SS yet? Seems your car was down on power for some odd reason did you ever figure that out or perhaps I missed it?

                      You can make 360 with cams as your car is configured now, sounds like a bad investment. Those numbers are not remotely impressive, are they to you? I wouldn't even focus on hp but torque instead and powerband. I will not be the one stopping you however as more data is never a bad thing with these cars and you are free to spend your money as you wish. As crazy as I am I would never tamper with the stroke but like I said it's your prerogative.

                      I would go 280s if you are planning to daily.
                      2003.5 MT JB/B - CSL SCHRICK SUPERSPRINT EISENMANN JRZ SWIFT MILLWAY APR ENDLESS BBS/SSR DREXLER KMP SACHS RECARO AR SLON MKRS GSP DMG KARBONIUS CP AUTOSOLUTIONS KOYO

                      Comment


                        #12
                        CSL Turner>Euro>SCZA was 324whp/250wtq
                        CSL TUner>SSV1>SCZA was 330/251wtq

                        The runs were not on the same dyno jet and with different operators of course. Air delivery is always the main concern as most these operators scoff when I tell them that I need two blower fans one for the oil cooler and the other for the airbox. Both are Tunes are from Hassan, the last one for the SSV1 setup we baselined at 320whp and got up to 330whp. I've addressed to my knowledge probably all issues that may contribute to a lower power reading. Like I outlined earlier all maintenance was done, plus other things refreshed/changed (injectors, fuel filter, TPS, etc).
                        2006 Silber Grau Metalizat ZCP 6 MT
                        M-texture (F2AT) - Turner CSL V2/CatCams 280 272/SSv1/SS Sec1/Sec2 dual res/SCZA TI (raw) - FatCat stage 3 ult 400f/784r - Vorshlag - EC7r 18x9.5 ET35/CRS 275/35/18 - RacingBrake BBK/MileEnd CSL bumper/Vorsteiner Trunk/Cobra Nogaro Circuit Mtexture/GC RCA/YURKan Cages/Hotchkiss/Vibra-technics/

                        IG: https://www.instagram.com/htrlo/

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Making the car lighter is much better return on money-- 300 lbs ~= 30 hp, which is probably what the stroker will gain you. But, 300 lbs also makes the handling, braking, feel, efficiency, reliability, tire wear, brake wear, etc, all better as well! 300lb isn't a stretch for what you'd be spending on a stroker.

                          2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
                          2012 LMB/Black 128i
                          2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

                          Comment


                            #14
                            How's your driving skill? I'd focus on that looong before doing a stroker build. Also, potentially long downtime and not being able to drive the car sucks. Ditto everything stated above regarding it being poor value, sticking with bolt ons and going the route of removing weight.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Talk to Naturallyagitated on instagram. He's got a 3.4L stroker. He might have some insight. He's been very helpful when I was rebuilding my engine. Good luck!

                              Comment

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