What oil?

[IamFODI]

Would you run race engine oil with 7500 mi OCI?

Castrol TWS is a race engine oil (i.e. used in race cars), so yes, I absolutely would.

[eacmen]

I get why people think this but it's incorrect and really needs to be mythbusted.

Race oils run the gamut from zero to healthy levels of detergency, depending on the application. AFAIK, the only engines that use no detergents are drag engines that get torn down after every pass and can't afford anything but the highest level of anti-wear performance. Everything else needs some amount of detergency. Combustion byproducts, oil breakdown, and fuel dilution would kill an engine that's run on non-detergent oil pretty quickly. The longer the race, the more the additive package looks like that of a street oil.

Per this link, the pic below is from 500 miles in a NASCAR engine:


From that page:



Does this oil have less detergency than a long-drain street oil? Almost definitely. But if it had none, the engine wouldn't finish the race.

Would you run race engine oil with 7500 mi OCI?


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[IamFODI]

In all seriousness please don't run race oil in a street car. All the detergents are removed and replaced with anti wear. Great for enduro engines with inter-season or inter-race rebuilds but horrible for a street car with typical oil change intervals.

I get why people think this but it's incorrect and really needs to be mythbusted.

Race oils run the gamut from zero to healthy levels of detergency, depending on the application. AFAIK, the only engines that use no detergents are drag engines that get torn down after every pass and can't afford anything but the highest level of anti-wear performance. Everything else needs some amount of detergency. Combustion byproducts, oil breakdown, and fuel dilution would kill an engine that's run on non-detergent oil pretty quickly. The longer the race, the more the additive package looks like that of a street oil.

Look up any oil analysis on Motul 300V, or Mobil's race oils, or... basically any race oil that isn't explicitly marked as having no detergent. There's always some Ca and/or Mg in there. Less than in a long-drain street oil, but not zero.

Per this link, the pic below is from 500 miles in a NASCAR engine:


From that page:

The discoloration is the result of oxidation, which is caused by heat, soot and other combustion carbon byproducts that blow by the rings.

Again: does this oil have less detergency than a long-drain street oil? Almost definitely. But if it had none, the engine wouldn't finish the race. All that crap that's darkening the oil (because the detergents are holding it in suspension) would instead be collecting in the engine, polishing the cylinder bores, etc.

[IamFODI]

Idemitsu is a good oil if you guys have some Japanese cars.

Interesting you mention Idemitsu...

They have one oil that's had my attention for a while, and it's their rotary engine oil. PAO/ester with a unique additive package: moderate detergent levels, stout ZDDP level, and a boatload of moly. The moderate detergent level minimizes competition with the anti-wear and anti-friction additives, which means those additives perform better than their levels suggest -- all while keeping sulfated ash around 0.9% or less, which is almost inconceivable for a performance oil. It should still be fine for short-to-moderate OCIs while performing at a level that'd be hard to match.

[eacmen]

In all seriousness please don't run race oil in a street car. All the detergents are removed and replaced with anti wear. Great for enduro engines with inter-season or inter-race rebuilds but horrible for a street car with typical oil change intervals.


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[Arith2]

Let me assure you FWIW that this was not at all what I meant to do. Apologies if I made it seem that way. I was mostly responding to eacmen's points.

No issue, I was also being sarcastic. It's hard to be serious on an oil thread.... I have to look into Total oil to be consistent because they are partnered with alot of teams as well. Idemitsu is a good oil if you guys have some Japanese cars. I'd use Eneos also but it just costs more. Japanese cars exist to cost the least amount of money

Le Mans is good this year and happening right now. Motortrend has a 14 day free trial so you guys can watch for free with no commercials. I'm pretty mad about the BOP adding 14kg killing the Porsche team. They got sick of them winning I guess.

[Carbonvert]

A prime example is Liquimoly. It's used in the BMWs at Le Mans. I still won't buy it. There's still research to be had on top of it. Motul has a much longer history and more connections. It's partnered with many championships since the 50s, I believe, back when it was an American company. My final choice on Motul over Liquimoly is the HTHS being 5.8 in Motul and 3.5 in Liquimoly. Higher means it has a more resistance to being sheared off the surface versus ease of flow. Motul has fewer detergents and HTHS is better. Liquimoly will give better gas mileage at the expense of not creating a lasting film. It's slight more viscous when cold and about the same at temperature so I think overall, it's better. Flashpoint is basically the same. From oil reports, the ZDDP are higher in both, however, Motul uses molybendum without an additive. Motul is overall cheaper and my opinion is it's better because it's not designed to need additives. Motorsports teams using it just puts me at ease. It's just awesome you can buy the race oil. I know it feels good to think you got me in a gotchya moment, I still look at data.

Motul > LM CHANGE MY MIND

So you are running 8100 X-Power?

Ever tried the 300v in these cars? That’s what the race teams would use


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[IamFODI]

I know it feels good to think you got me in a gotchya moment

Let me assure you FWIW that this was not at all what I meant to do. Apologies if I made it seem that way. I was mostly responding to eacmen's points.

[Arith2]

As much as I wouldn't pick an oil just because a race team used it, I also wouldn't even consider an oil from a company without a successful motorsports program.

A prime example is Liquimoly. It's used in the BMWs at Le Mans. I still won't buy it. There's still research to be had on top of it. Motul has a much longer history and more connections. It's partnered with many championships since the 50s, I believe, back when it was an American company. My final choice on Motul over Liquimoly is the HTHS being 5.8 in Motul and 3.5 in Liquimoly. Higher means it has a more resistance to being sheared off the surface versus ease of flow. Motul has fewer detergents and HTHS is better. Liquimoly will give better gas mileage at the expense of not creating a lasting film. It's slight more viscous when cold and about the same at temperature so I think overall, it's better. Flashpoint is basically the same. From oil reports, the ZDDP are higher in both, however, Motul uses molybendum without an additive. Motul is overall cheaper and my opinion is it's better because it's not designed to need additives. Motorsports teams using it just puts me at ease. It's just awesome you can buy the race oil. I know it feels good to think you got me in a gotchya moment, I still look at data.

Motul > LM CHANGE MY MIND

[IamFODI]

I agree that one shouldn't pick street oil based on race use. But I wouldn't blow off an endurance racing oil for street OCIs just because it's a "racing" oil. Those cars cover a lot of miles in a race (1k to 3k+ AFAIK), and that's almost 100% flat-out. Still a lot different from 7500 street miles in a street engine, but not as different as one might think.

I've used 300V for 5k+ OCIs (100% street) in a tired old S52 with significant fuel dilution. The oil held up fine. Plenty of people have done the same.

IMO, the real benefit of a motorsport program is the same for lubricants as it is for any other part of a car. It's not so much about using parts directly off the race car, though that's cool when it happens. It's mainly about the knowledge, expertise, and partnerships cultivated through racing. As much as I wouldn't pick an oil just because a race team used it, I also wouldn't even consider an oil from a company without a successful motorsports program.

[enjoy_m3]

Personally I wouldn't choose oil by what racing teams use. That oil is changed frequently, for LMP cars usually between races. A formulation that works well for race cars for one weekend is very different than one that lasts 7500 miles.

Dont get me wrong Motul is a quality oil. But looking at the logos on the side of racing cars is not what you should be concerned with.

Currently have a stockpile of Castrol edge that I'm going through. After that going to try either Ravenol or Motul.

I bring some leftover liquimoly to the track in case I need to top off oil, I never use it for a full fill.


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He still didnt get it. LOL!

[tnord]

Marketing rubbish??? What the heck would it matter if it was 4v or 3v or 2v without VVT?

this.

[Arith2]

300V is used in the Motul sponsored cars at Le Mans. This is LMP1, LMP2, and GTE AM teams. We can buy the oil they use and put it in our cars. That's pretty nifty. I don't recall any of those teams having engine failures and I recently watched the 2019 Le Mans. A third of the teams at Le Mans run this oil. The IMSA series has quite a bit of teams using this oil. Motul has good shear resistance too. I don't know how many people actually care about these championships but mostly endurance races. Not saying racing sponsorships are the standard but that's pretty awesome.

[Yar1]

Liqui Moly 10w-60 Synthoil.. some of the best oils and customer service hands down. Both M cars get it.

[Arith2]

Personally I wouldn't choose oil by what racing teams use. That oil is changed frequently, for LMP cars usually between races. A formulation that works well for race cars for one weekend is very different than one that lasts 7500 miles.

Dont get me wrong Motul is a quality oil. But looking at the logos on the side of racing cars is not what you should be concerned with.

Currently have a stockpile of Castrol edge that I'm going through. After that going to try either Ravenol or Motul.

I bring some leftover liquimoly to the track in case I need to top off oil, I never use it for a full fill.


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That's not all I go by 😂 Turner uses Liquimoly in their GT4 and I'm not going to ever use it again. I've very impressed with it in BMWs, Mercedes, Ferraris, Audis, and other stuff. They're the Michelin of oils, and also French. Does anyone here have knowledge on what oils they use for those races?