Will miss the combustion engine..

[Obioban]

EVs are great. If only they were not all ugly as shit, maybe I would have gotten one.

To my eye, the model S is the best looking sedan on sale new today. I don't particularly want one, but I think it's a good looking car (especially compared to what everyone else is putting out these days).

[Obioban]

Ha! Well I like it regardless!

My folks are in PA as well, west-ish of Philly by about an hour. Beautiful spaces up there...

I really love rural PA. We're ~1 hour westish of Philly ourselves, so exactly what you're talking about.

Stopped by our lot last week. This will be the front view from where our house is being built:

[Obioban]

^there's also no local police department where were building, just state trooopers called in when a crime happens. Aka... zero speed limit enforcement on the twisty, winding back roads I'll have to take to get anywhere

[repoman89]

BMW is putting out some ugly cars these days but to my eye the M5CS is far nicer looking than any Tesla

[Obioban]

BMW is putting out some ugly cars these days but to my eye the M5CS is far nicer looking than any Tesla

To my eye/mind, the M5CS is probably the worst M5 example... ever? The M5 is supposed to be the quintessential Q ship. A wolf in sheep's clothing. The CS is anything but-- Big red brakes, overly large bronze wheels, CF spoiler, CF splitters, yellow accent lights, hood vents. It's like what would happen if 90s pontiac was given the task of restyling a 5 series.Nothing subtle about it.

So, disagree.

[repoman89]

What does that say about the model S then that the worst M5 ever looks better … which was kind of the point

[usdmej]

if you kidnapped someone pre E60 M5, locked them in a room for 20 years, then showed them an unbranded model S and the latest m5, they would totally believe that the tesla is the evolved M5 over the actual M5

[Tbonem3]

BMW losing their way design-wise has nowt to do with EV vs ICE. Governmental regulations have affected design (e.g., proportion of door size to window size), but I would think all brands would have the same handicap.

[usdmej]

pedestrian crash standards have undoubtedly made ICE vehicles taller and more bloated looking. EVs design wise can work around this much better and it shows in the styling

[Tbonem3]

pedestrian crash standards have undoubtedly made ICE vehicles taller and more bloated looking. EVs design wise can work around this much better and it shows in the styling

Why would EVs not be encumbered by the same regs?

[gheorghe]

Very interesting discussion that I often think about.

Two years ago, I was having a chat with two DTE employees at a Red Wings game. Among other things, they informed me that there is a number I can call and DTE would come to my house to replace every single bulb with LED bulbs for free. When I asked why and how that is possible, they explained that DTE only has a set amount of capacity they can pump out of their power stations. When they get near that capacity they have to either find ways to lower the demand on the grid or build additional power generating stations. Pretty interesting stuff that got me thinking. In Michigan and probably in a lot of other states, I would imagine the power companies are running pretty close to their max capacity, it would only make business sense.

As for the Gas to EV transition, from some quick googling, EV's accounted for 1.4% of all vehicle sales in 2019 and 1.7% in 2020. (I remember seeing an article saying that last year more EVs were sold than Manual Transmission cars hahaha). In the transition to EVs I can't help but think about the power capacity issue my DTE friends were discussing. I have a level 2 Bosch charger in my garage (I've had a few EVs in the past) that is on a 50A breaker and is rated for 9Kw so that consumes a bit more power than my AC unit does. Now, if all my neighbors also had EVs and charged their cars with a similar charger I don't see the grid being able to hold up that that much demand. Also, with that much more demand, the current electricity prices will not be staying where they are now, power companies have to invest in the grid and stations to satisfy the demand.

The gas to EV transition will be inevitable, I just don't think it will happen in 20 years unless there is an abundance of new power stations currently going up that we do not know about.

In my experience, an EV is a great car..as a second car to run around town in, but I could not just rely solely on an EV. The most common question people ask about EVs is "What's the range?" Seems weird but it is like someone asking, "How many miles can your car go on a tank of gas". No one askes the ladder since no one really cares, if you get low on gas, chances are a gas station is not very far off... The EV range question is also very tricky. The cars I've owned all had claimed ranges of 240miles, but in the summer around town I often and easily got 300 miles of range per charge. One a winter trip however, leaving my house with a full charge for a 165mile round trip, with highway driving, I had a situation where I had to turn the heat off and drive 55mph on I75. Not fun!
Had there been DC fast chargers at almost every exit where there were gas stations my trip would have been more enjoyable.

I think in the short term, the EV vehicle sales will slowly go up but we are still a long ways away from them becoming the norm. Also, when considering their current prices, size for size the equivalent gas engine car would still be cheaper to own even with $4-5/gal and maintenance figured in.

[usdmej]

Why would EVs not be encumbered by the same regs?

one of the newer regs is that there has to be some type of crumple zone between the engine and hood in the event you hit a pedestrian or cyclist. engine's can't really go much lower so most manufacturers simply make their hoodlines taller to create the space, and consequently the rest of the car becomes taller to keep proportions.

EVs don't have an engine block that dictates minimum hood height, so they can be made lower looking and more swoopy while still meeting the newer crash standards

[Obioban]

[FONT=Arial]Very interesting discussion that I often think about.

Two years ago, I was having a chat with two DTE employees at a Red Wings game. Among other things, they informed me that there is a number I can call and DTE would come to my house to replace every single bulb with LED bulbs for free. When I asked why and how that is possible, they explained that DTE only has a set amount of capacity they can pump out of their power stations. When they get near that capacity they have to either find ways to lower the demand on the grid or build additional power generating stations. Pretty interesting stuff that got me thinking. In Michigan and probably in a lot of other states, I would imagine the power companies are running pretty close to their max capacity, it would only make business sense.

As for the Gas to EV transition, from some quick googling, EV's accounted for 1.4% of all vehicle sales in 2019 and 1.7% in 2020. (I remember seeing an article saying that last year more EVs were sold than Manual Transmission cars hahaha). In the transition to EVs I can't help but think about the power capacity issue my DTE friends were discussing. I have a level 2 Bosch charger in my garage (I've had a few EVs in the past) that is on a 50A breaker and is rated for 9Kw so that consumes a bit more power than my AC unit does. Now, if all my neighbors also had EVs and charged their cars with a similar charger I don't see the grid being able to hold up that that much demand. Also, with that much more demand, the current electricity prices will not be staying where they are now, power companies have to invest in the grid and stations to satisfy the demand.

The gas to EV transition will be inevitable, I just don't think it will happen in 20 years unless there is an abundance of new power stations currently going up that we do not know about.

That actually seems pretty easy to solve-- different power prices at different times of day, or by demand. If power was super cheap from, say, 1am to 5am, people would schedule their cars/chargers to charge in that window. I don't know of an EV that can't be programed to do that. Excess generation by power plants is actually almost as much of an issue as excess demand, so that takes it from creating a problem to solving a problem.

[Obioban]

one of the newer regs is that there has to be some type of crumple zone between the engine and hood in the event you hit a pedestrian or cyclist. engine's can't really go much lower so most manufacturers simply make their hoodlines taller to create the space, and consequently the rest of the car becomes taller to keep proportions.

EVs don't have an engine block that dictates minimum hood height, so they can be made lower looking and more swoopy while still meeting the newer crash standards

Yep.

Model 3 has an almost rear/mid engine car like greenhouse because the hood can get nice and low, unlike any (especially modern, pedestrian crash standard) ICEV hood.

[jet_dogg]

BMW is putting out some ugly cars these days but to my eye the M5CS is far nicer looking than any Tesla

The new m5 is the best looking one since the e39.

Tesla designs are already looking dated and I don't know where they're going to go from here. I can't help but laugh when I see people in my rearview in model 3s who look like they're sitting on three phone books.