E46 M3 compared to other sports cars you've driven

[Obioban]

Well we are all different, but I see your enthusiasm for the e46 I like em too but I like the old school M5 better even the old ones like the e28 with a built suspension they are fun to drive not fast but fun....👍🏽

I believe it.

e28 M5 is remarkably close to e46 M3 dimensions.... and lighter :P

IMO how fun a car is to drive is determined by, in order of importance...
Size
weight
steering feel
transmission type
engine dynamics (not power)
chassis feel
engine power

e28 M5 is small, light, not the best steering feel (but miles better than anything sold today), always manual, great engine dynamics, good chassis feel, sufficient engine power.

[t44tq]

IMO, weight is the most important. By taking out weight, everything else improves- acceleration, braking, etc. A lot of newer cars are simply way too heavy.

Now I sound like a hypocrite, driving a 3800 lb. M3 Cabriolet, but my shoe is around 3050 lbs and more fun to drive. The Porsche 991s really made it to be a GT car, not a sports car. They're simply too big and too heavy- you can fix the suspension, but it's hard to change the dimensions and hard to lose significant weight.

I almost bought a Corvette Kart for that reason- low weight. But thought that it would be way too impractical and hard to live with. Like a 4 wheel motorcycle.

Best 911 to date, IMO, was the 997.2 GT3RS 4.0.

The McLaren F1 is the ultimate expression of that philosophy, which is why it's my ultimate car.

[maw1124]

This is interesting... I'd go (1) size; (2) weight; (3) transmission; (4) engine character (mainly torque); then (5) steering. Oddly enough, that's BECAUSE of the E46M.

I had larger, much more powerful cars with torque converters and paddles when I bought this one, and this car is way more fun to drive with the SMG even. I'm comparing zero cars to manuals because I won't drive a manual any more than I have to in a pinch. But this little high output motor with its uber flexible transmission won me over (though I wish more of that power was lower in the band with more torque). It ain't DCT quick but it's quick enough. 5v per cylinder might make it sound better but that's just being picky.

maw

[Obioban]

For me, torque is a negative. Low torque, high HP/revs means you have to work the car over to get the most out of it, which makes it more involving.

I don't I'm alone in this-- all the cars that are "best drivers cars" are low torque, high HP/revs-- Miata, integras, GT3s, S2000, NSX, e30 M3s (any real M car), ferraries, F1s, etc.

Torque is for lazy cars :P

[Obioban]

IMO, weight is the most important. By taking out weight, everything else improves- acceleration, braking, etc. A lot of newer cars are simply way too heavy.

Now I sound like a hypocrite, driving a 3800 lb. M3 Cabriolet, but my shoe is around 3050 lbs and more fun to drive. The Porsche 991s really made it to be a GT car, not a sports car. They're simply too big and too heavy- you can fix the suspension, but it's hard to change the dimensions and hard to lose significant weight.

I almost bought a Corvette Kart for that reason- low weight. But thought that it would be way too impractical and hard to live with. Like a 4 wheel motorcycle.

Best 911 to date, IMO, was the 997.2 GT3RS 4.0.

The McLaren F1 is the ultimate expression of that philosophy, which is why it's my ultimate car.

Weight is HUGE for sure. That's why I'm put so much effort into making my car lighter (3081 lbs with a half tank as she sits today)!

But... I'm not sure size isn't equally/more important. The bigger the car, the less you can take a racing line within your lane. There's just less room to play.

[maw1124]

For me, torque is a negative. Low torque, high HP/revs means you have to work the car over to get the most out of it, which makes it more involving.

I don't I'm alone in this-- all the cars that are "best drivers cars" are low torque, high HP/revs-- Miata, integras, GT3s, S2000, NSX, e30 M3s (any real M car), ferraries, F1s, etc.

Torque is for lazy cars :P

You're not alone. Everyone knows wringing the car's neck to get power out it is what most people consider "fun to drive." I don't always want to work that hard. I like effortless power everywhere in the band, which is why my favorite is the S55 AMG. If your neck and spine don't snap back, what's the point?!

But to your point, it's also too big to toss around, because ... I don't want to work that hard. My E5E is next -- goes like a Benz and handles like a Porsche. It's about the same size as these with more torque and will stay GLUED to these almost anywhere. Then this car, and then the beater Allroad 4.2. But you can't really drive any of them as hard as this one because you run out of road real fast. Same for the 911 turbos. By the time you get into the power you've run out of room.

;-D

maw

[jet_dogg]

Well we are all different, but I see your enthusiasm for the e46 I like em too but I like the old school M5 better even the old ones like the e28 with a built suspension they are fun to drive not fast but fun....👍🏽

I don't know where you're picking up my enthusiasm for the m3, but I'm about as unbiased as it gets so you'll have to accept that my experience (as well as my e34 m5 buddy who texted me there is no comparison) is different than yours.

On the topic of low torque, well that's a bunch of rubbish. I won't even get into honda talk but the torque figures are deceptive because of the ridiculous final drive ratios. It's more like proper ratio of tq/hp along with powerband that make the experience for me, as well as naturally aspirated coupled with a manual transmission. Of course there is also throttle response, high revs, and aural sensation in addition to the commonly accepted characteristics of size, weight, etc. If the m3 didn't have ITBs and carbon airboxes available I'd have sold mine a long time ago.

I test drove an rs6 and an s5 in the mid late 2000s and both were garbage. The m3 felt like a racecar compared to those but I've not driven an rs4 which another buddy owns. Now I just need to get my hands on an rs 4.0 to test drive 🤠

[Casa de Mesa]

And I have a fuel cell to put in the trunk for rallies

Mah dude this is so badass for so many reasons. Full stop, this is just badassery.

It also raises so many questions. What spring rates are you running? How does this improve or detract from flat ride? What's your cross-weights look like at full, 3/4 and 1/4? Why did you choose the red fuel cell and not black? Do you offer inflight refueling for others on the rally?

Also, I like how you ditched your trunk mounted tools for weight savings. We all know weight up high is a killer. Definitely a pro tip right there.

Legitimately and all joking aside - this is just awesome.

[Obioban]

Mah dude this is so badass for so many reasons. Full stop, this is just badassery.

It also raises so many questions. What spring rates are you running? How does this improve or detract from flat ride? What's your cross-weights look like at full, 3/4 and 1/4? Why did you choose the red fuel cell and not black? Do you offer inflight refueling for others on the rally?

Also, I like how you ditched your trunk mounted tools for weight savings. We all know weight up high is a killer. Definitely a pro tip right there.

Legitimately and all joking aside - this is just awesome.

Ha.

I actually haven't had cause to install the fuel cell since I've gone flat ride, but the car should be better suited for it than previously-- I used to run 500 lb rear springs daily and swap in 700s when I ran the fuel cell. These days I run 700s (ish) daily.

Cross weights aren't effected because the weight of the fuel cell is evenly distributed left/right.

Red was cheaper, so went with red :P

Only in flight refueling for me-- I have a button in the cabin that refills the stock tank from the fuel cell. Combined we have just under 60 gallons.

The car is not light in rally mode-- also have a spare wheel/tire in the trunk, spare parts and tools in the trunk, cooler/fridge in the back seat, etc. Almost back up to stock M3 weight, fully loaded and fueled up :P

[t44tq]

Weight is HUGE for sure. That's why I'm put so much effort into making my car lighter (3081 lbs with a half tank as she sits today)!

But... I'm not sure size isn't equally/more important. The bigger the car, the less you can take a racing line within your lane. There's just less room to play.

I agree that size is important, but I think weight is the most important factor, still.

That being said, cars smaller than a Miata are a bit too small for me, in terms of visibility and safety. I'd love to own a Suzuki Cappucino or a Caterham, but they're so small that you literally risk being run over by an SUV.

[Obioban]

I just don’t fit into them, At 6’4. E.g. I can’t close the roof on any generation Miata.

[usdmej]

.... and I picked up an oven in my other M3 earlier this week



.

i'm embarassed about how long it took me to figure out this wasn't a coupe picture

[lastMleft]

I just don’t fit into them, At 6’4. E.g. I can’t close the roof on any generation Miata.

Lol I’m 6.4” too...I agree Miata’s are to small. My M is a tight squeeze.

[Sharocks]

I've been fortunate to be able to drive a lot of different kinds of cars.

The only thing that is memorable with the E46 M3 is it's ability to kind of do it all. Not everything or anything at this point exceptionally well, but it can do everything.

That being said, I will still say that the experience you get out of an E46 M3 these days is effectively around a $25k experience.

Paying more for one is ridiculous, it's not THAT good lol.

[Obioban]

Lol I’m 6.4” too...I agree Miata’s are to small. My M is a tight squeeze.

Seats were great for that. I used to have to recline the seat to get into the car with a helmet. Since I stuck the nogaros in, I can fit an entire fist over my head, with my seat in a proper upright position.