Nightmare dealer situation (Updated)

[Slicktop]

You would accept the car back at this point? I feel like if I take the car back I’m on my own. He mentioned he would put it in the notes and if something happens in the next 500 miles they would work with me however I don't trust that. And what if it happens in 1500 miles then what? I think I have to do something now.

You aren't going to be able to prove if anything is wrong with the car on a tech drive. You will know if something is catastrophically wrong within 100 miles. Commonly when you have to rebuild engines with spun bearings, if the crank is not replaced it will spin the bearing again under 100 miles.

I don't think you are anywhere near that point with this car. Draw a line in the sand with them that you are going to come in when you hit an additional 500 miles. Get a free oil change, have them cut the filter open and send out the oil to Blackstone. Have him give the analysis with the precursor as to what has happened.

If the readings are fine then sleep at night but if not that is when you have the dealer do the work. Kind of a bind right now as they can just tell you to take the car and go considering there is nothing wrong with it in the moment. Thats my 2 cents on it I hope it works out and you keep the car.

[GreyM340i]

You aren't going to be able to prove if anything is wrong with the car on a tech drive. You will know if something is catastrophically wrong within 100 miles. Commonly when you have to rebuild engines with spun bearings, if the crank is not replaced it will spin the bearing again under 100 miles.

I don't think you are anywhere near that point with this car. Draw a line in the sand with them that you are going to come in when you hit an additional 500 miles. Get a free oil change, have them cut the filter open and send out the oil to Blackstone. Have him give the analysis with the precursor as to what has happened.

If the readings are fine then sleep at night but if not that is when you have the dealer do the work. Kind of a bind right now as they can just tell you to take the car and go considering there is nothing wrong with it in the moment. Thats my 2 cents on it I hope it works out and you keep the car.

I think this is what I’m going to have to do. Just want to get the wording perfect in the dealer notes and hope for the best. Also right when I leave the dealership I will be running the car to redline in multiple gears just incase something lets go on the drive home. They will be a hard 500 miles just to make sure its ok.

[/M3]

These motors already have vanos and rod bearing issues. Who knows what no oil did to it.

I joined the old M3forum in like 2004 and we had these posts around the forum, which was understandable, BMW having the rod bearing recall and not many aftermarket options etc. However here we are in the year 2022 and still the same garbage comments. How about you maintain those two items in your race engine that produces over 100 horsepower per liter and not call it an issue anymore?

[sapote]

Well on the drive home right before I get off the exit for my house I saw the oil light flash on and the engine died right on the turn.
....

I turned it off the second I heard that noise and it sounded like it wanted to die. I just hope we can come to a agreement to open the bottom end and check the rods and crank. Maybe get some rod bearings out of this. Haha

So engine didn't die on itself but making some noise with red oil light, and you turned it off.

Red oil light with noise is never good. You should insist that with most of the oil leaked the bearings could be damaged and the rod and main bearings need to be checked, period. This is fair and the dealer should do this.

[sapote]

I don’t think this model M3 will shut off with low oil, newer ones probably do. If you heard noises and it stalled, I don’t think the dealer is in for a good time. Just be nice to them, if the SA pushes back, escalate it nicely, don’t be a jerk, it was a mistake that will cost this dealer several thousand to remedy. I wouldn’t accept the car until the bottom end is opened. They will agree eventually. At a minimum, check the oil filter right now with you and the SA present (so they don’t play games) and use a flashlight. Any sparkles, they own it. No sparkles, open bottom end. If you take it home without them doing anything and the engine blows next week you will own it. Tell them all you want is conformation the bottom end is ok and you will walk away happy. You shouldn’t have to pay for a thing.

To avoid fatal accident -- say in the middle of a left turn front of traffic -- I don't think the DME software would shut off the engine just because a red oil light signal, it's just too dangerous.

As about checking the oil filter, this short event could scratch the bearings but not running long enough to have the metal flakes collected in the filter yet. The bearings need to be checked.

[GreyM340i]

So engine didn't die on itself but making some noise with red oil light, and you turned it off.

Red oil light with noise is never good. You should insist that with most of the oil leaked the bearings could be damaged and the rod and main bearings need to be checked, period. This is fair and the dealer should do this.

Red oil light went on and the engine died. I pulled to the side then tried to start it and it made a noise and sounded ruff. I quickly shut it off and checked the oil. They now say its running fine and put it in writing that I can drive it 500 miles then come back for a oil change to send a sample to Blackstone then go from there.

[Phoenix///M3]

You said you've bought your last three BMWs from this dealer so that should buy you some good will. Highly suggest you escalate this to at least the dealer GM if not the owner. The service manager is not going to want you to do that but you need to get above him and leverage the business you've given them in the past to the fullest extent.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[GreyM340i]

You said you've bought your last three BMWs from this dealer so that should buy you some good will. Highly suggest you escalate this to at least the dealer GM if not the owner. The service manager is not going to want you to do that but you need to get above him and leverage the business you've given them in the past to the fullest extent.

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I think you’re right. I’m going to go in on Friday and speak to the GM. Not sure where this is going to go.

[BMWE46M3]

Dude, that sucks... If you're a member of the BMWCCA then I would recommend emailing Mike Miller and getting his advice. The club has some leverage and getting them involved in any possible way can only help you. Remember it was their strong petitioning BMW to sell the M3 here in the first place, and if they hadn't we wouldn't even have this forum since none of us would own M3s. I really hope this works out for you.

[Icecream]

To avoid fatal accident -- say in the middle of a left turn front of traffic -- I don't think the DME software would shut off the engine just because a red oil light signal, it's just too dangerous.

As about checking the oil filter, this short event could scratch the bearings but not running long enough to have the metal flakes collected in the filter yet. The bearings need to be checked.

Yeah true, I have no idea if it does or doesn't on the new ones. Overall probably no higher risk than SMG failure in a left turn haha, zing!

I figured they test drove it a bit after topping up. Easy check and would be a quick way to get the dealer to agree.

[Icecream]

Red oil light went on and the engine died. I pulled to the side then tried to start it and it made a noise and sounded ruff. I quickly shut it off and checked the oil. They now say its running fine and put it in writing that I can drive it 500 miles then come back for a oil change to send a sample to Blackstone then go from there.

I'd kindly pass on that offer. What is the ppm threshold they are looking for? Are they going to make excuses when a moderately bad report comes back and at 500 miles, that's not much driving to get meaningful data (unless it is over 100ppm everywhere). As anecdotal evidence why this is a bad idea, most on here know my car suffered a low oil condition due to a blown vanos line. Car didn't shut off, never saw a red oil light and never heard a single noise or any roughness in the engine. thought I dodged a bullet, I did not. I was very low on oil, probably a minute or two from throwing a rod, but again, no noise, no lights (oil level sensor was busted, unknown to me). The engine blew just a few thousand miles later, no indications that something was wrong, not even the filter had specs in it after the first oil change after the initial low oil event (possible I did not check the filter as closely as I should have) but it ran perfect. Take this with a grain of salt since I don't know yet (until maybe after I open the motor) what actually happened but I'd hate to see you coming back here in 3 months looking for an engine.

[GreyM340i]

I'd kindly pass on that offer. What is the ppm threshold they are looking for? Are they going to make excuses when a moderately bad report comes back and at 500 miles, that's not much driving to get meaningful data (unless it is over 100ppm everywhere). As anecdotal evidence why this is a bad idea, most on here know my car suffered a low oil condition due to a blown vanos line. Car didn't shut off, never saw a red oil light and never heard a single noise or any roughness in the engine. thought I dodged a bullet, I did not. I was very low on oil, probably a minute or two from throwing a rod, but again, no noise, no lights (oil level sensor was busted, unknown to me). The engine blew just a few thousand miles later, no indications that something was wrong, not even the filter had specs in it after the first oil change after the initial low oil event (possible I did not check the filter as closely as I should have) but it ran perfect. Take this with a grain of salt since I don't know yet (until maybe after I open the motor) what actually happened but I'd hate to see you coming back here in 3 months looking for an engine.

Oh wow thanks for posting. Yeah this is what I’m afraid of. Not sure what my options are at this point because they don't seem to want to do anything else saying the car is fine. I will be going in on Friday and will try to speak to the dealership GM and see where that gets me. Not sure what I can do other than try and take legal action however will I even have a case if they say the engine is running perfectly and no sign of damage? This is a horrible situation.

[Icecream]

Oh wow thanks for posting. Yeah this is what I’m afraid of. Not sure what my options are at this point because they don't seem to want to do anything else saying the car is fine. I will be going in on Friday and will try to speak to the dealership GM and see where that gets me. Not sure what I can do other than try and take legal action however will I even have a case if they say the engine is running perfectly and no sign of damage? This is a horrible situation.

Yeah it is man. Don't threaten them with legal action (yet), being courteous, understanding their perspective and not threatening them will go a long way. Opening the bottom end is not a lot of work for a dealer, they owe that to you (I'd even agree to pay for parts just to get them to do it). The only way to make this easy is to either try the 500 mile thing (better yet, tell them to extend it to a 3000 mile run) with the understanding in writing, that it does not absolve them of anything if you get a clean report (the purpose of it is to see if you get a bad report to definitively prove the engine was damaged, not necessarily to get a good report and let the dealer off the hook ) or, agree to have them perform a rod bearing job at cost (parts/labor) and that they will warranty the work. Yours only have 70k on them so they aren't worn but they are halfway through their life. If they discover abnormal wear during the job, have them agree the bill is on them (for a new motor at that point, or a solid warranty) or if they look fine, you get new bearings at cost (which you'd have to pay for down the road anyway). GL man, keep your cool, work with the dealer and I am sure you will get a good outcome. I don't know how BMWNA works but if you have a history of buying new cars from them, shoot them an email about the situation, i'd even let the dealer know you are doing this as a courtesy but only after you have documented they messed up the oil change, that you got a red oil light and that the engine stalled as you were driving back from the dealer. Get that in writing, somehow, it's probably already written up in their reports.

[sapote]

They now say its running fine and put it in writing that I can drive it 500 miles then come back for a oil change to send a sample to Blackstone then go from there.

Scratched or slight worn bearings will not make noise enough to hear the obvious, but visually could be bad. Their tech made the mistake and you should not be holding the short end with damaged bearings, even no obvious noise yet. What if some rod bearings spun 5000 miles down the road?

[GreyM340i]

Scratched or slight worn bearings will not make noise enough to hear the obvious, but visually could be bad. Their tech made the mistake and you should not be holding the short end with damaged bearings, even no obvious noise yet. What if some rod bearings spun 5000 miles down the road?

I’m with you on this and i said the same thing to them today. I will go in person Friday and speak to the GM and see what he says. I have been cool the whole time and the manager even said he appreciated it however so far it hasn’t gotten me to a better resolution. Ill know more. In the next few days.