S54 Stroker build

[Arith2]

No, you're mistaken, it's entirely possible to run big boy cams in an S54...and retain VANOS. The Schrick cams that you're both referencing are actually 304/296 duration specs, and it's actually more the lift than duration that gets you into trouble.

That's definitely good to know. I was thinking that the vanos might create too much overlap but really, it just may be dialed backed woth the tune. The idling can be fixed by raising it... Maybe 1200rpm will keep it run decent for daily driving?

It's probably good to not stroke this engine for daily driving. These pistons move extremely fast as is. I'm about to start another Power and Performance class. I think I'll be mapping tunes(I won't be an expert by any means) so I should learn alot more about this in depth over the next few weeks. Hopefully the teacher doesn't suck. I do wish the school didn't pull the Flowmaster out of the curriculum though.

This aggressive build is going to be sick. You should document this on Youtube.

[digger]

Torque is what this engine needs the most, obviously hp isn't the only goal, I do want lower end torque. In the case of the valvetrain what really goes wrong if it is put together properly? I know im going to get a billet crank and if slightly increasing the displacement guarantees more toque and hp it seems like a no brainer. Either way Im going to be replacing my valves and valve retainers etc, with higher quality parts, if in stroker builds, thats what goes wrong isn't there a way to prevent it, therefore getting the best of both worlds hp and torque?
In reference to cost, I'm most likely going to replace engine components, and Ive factored in the cost for a 5k billet crank and its within reason with the budget of this build.

then you want the longest stroke crank, high compression, E85, with mild cams (non excessive durarion but good lift) thats the fundamentals of how you make torque. you can forego the high lit 14mm cams if you want added durability in the valvetrain.

to make hp with stock crank means more rpm which is harder on parts than cubic inches, valve control which can spit shims, pound retainers, locks, fatigue springs and everything else. i havent kept up with what the big names are selling these days but if i was build a high spec motor id be going a diffrent route to the usual ST or ferrea as i think there is better stuff out there but you need to know your stuff to mix and match bits and piecs and some of will need to be custom

[M/Anthony]

Anthony it is really easy to get a stout stroker bottom end it just cost money to get the correct quality parts including a damper . Mahle MS 4032 pistons are what you need and a correctly machined crank with journals on point. Then it’s just a matter of a proper machine shop doing the block machining and assembly work.
The fundamentals are the same for any engine from a Honda to BBC. There is zero about an s54 that is unique in the bottom end and the stroker changes none of that.
most issues people have is in the valvetrain except the obvious rod bearing that affects the factory spec engines

in truth the stroker just makes more torque not hp so if you’re not wanting more torque then the cost is not worth it

Torque is what this engine needs the most, obviously hp isn't the only goal, I do want lower end torque. In the case of the valvetrain what really goes wrong if it is put together properly? I know im going to get a billet crank and if slightly increasing the displacement guarantees more toque and hp it seems like a no brainer. Either way Im going to be replacing my valves and valve retainers etc, with higher quality parts, if in stroker builds, thats what goes wrong isn't there a way to prevent it, therefore getting the best of both worlds hp and torque?
In reference to cost, I'm most likely going to replace engine components, and Ive factored in the cost for a 5k billet crank and its within reason with the budget of this build.

[digger]

Anthony it is really easy to get a stout stroker bottom end it just cost money to get the correct quality parts including a damper . Mahle MS 4032 pistons are what you need and a correctly machined crank with journals on point. Then it’s just a matter of a proper machine shop doing the block machining and assembly work.
The fundamentals are the same for any engine from a Honda to BBC. There is zero about an s54 that is unique in the bottom end and the stroker changes none of that.
most issues people have is in the valvetrain except the obvious rod bearing that affects the factory spec engines

in truth the stroker just makes more torque not hp so if you’re not wanting more torque then the cost is not worth it

[bjz!]

Both what?

Use the money saved from not buying fancy titanium/Inconel parts and spend it on quality pot work.

[M/Anthony]

But these are S54s and S54 owners we're talking about here. If we were pragmatic, we'd probably own ZHPs.

This is the best quote to describe this build. Ok this post will be a bit lengthy and I apologize for that in advance. But first, I would like to say thank you to everybody who has responded and contributed to this thread, I appreciate your help, it has helped me beyond thinkable with this build. If it is not much to ask I will ask to keep this thread alive and well, because due to my craziness and being as Ethan puts it, s54 owner, I want this thread to be a pile of information and new tried things since I never saw it before. Meaning I will ask dumb questions, sorry I can't help it still semi-noob engine building haha; but I want it for everyone else to see and maybe some who builds an S54 is inspires to build his car NA. While Im j speaking rhetorically there, I believe having a lot of engine information and engine talk will be beneficial to the community.

So going forward, I will have to replace my internals since my pistons are In the best of shape, and theres no point to going big and forgetting abut engine components. Addiotnally the reason behind newer components will be to have the s54 rev faster and have an all around lighter rotating assembly, crank, lighter clutch, carbon driveshaft etc. I always felt the s54 was a bit slow to rev anyway.

After talking with you guys and Obioban, he convinced me that even his 356rwhp m3 is a riot on the street and Im changing my view on my build. This engine will be insane to begin with, crazy and not a regular s54 build, with cars I like trying something new and different from everyone. But, since he even said that ill have a fun time on the street and it has plenty of power and ill put her on a diet so her weight is around 3k, I realized that stroking it will not be done. I want this car and engine to be as raw as you can get, however I still want to drive to Dunkin Donuts some mornings with it. This car will be lighter too, so it will defiantly be fun. I don't want to be scared just riding in the car, I was crazy and fast but I dont want to fear my car, if so I would've slapped a turbo on there.

Next, since Im not doing a "Stroker build" reasons being 1. finky 2. rebuild costs 3. I would be able l to drive or enjoy it the same as I want to 4. overall initial costs, 5k for a 97mm stoker, insane. 5. risks of things going wrong 6. oil, as I don't want to run a dry sump

But, this engine will be: fully rebuild, balanced and probably blueprinted, new everything. Lighter crank and pistons/ connecting rods. I wouldn't be surprised if the displacement jumps up a couple of ccs du to after market parts, which is very ok by me lol. This engine will have a Bimmerwrold CSL Intake that routes to the front of my car, air will feed through kidneys girls, radiator lowered. However, I will be raising compression, to what yet im not sure.

I have already contacted Partee racing and they would be happy to, I just have to wait for a week becuas ehe is backed up with work right now. So nows the perfect time for me to as questions on here.
How high of a compression is too high for E85? I have to retain Vanos, but whats the main effect if I were to put in high lift schrick camshafts versus less lift Cat Cams? Is there a way to run a flex fuel kind of tune, because the pump E85 in Norcals isn't straight e85 and im guessing either way it'll fluctuate a lot? 13:1 on street? Best guy to get headwork done? ill ask more questions along the road.

Either which way this engine will be a nit radical, crazy, and seen as stupid but it'll be fun and thats all that matters at the end of the day. I want to push to see how far we can go. Below are my current Pistons, backstory I bought my m3 from a sketchy guy and well many things went wrong and there were problems left and right, lesson: trust yourself and m3s are not cheap lol. Anyhow, I have pictures of the entire engine when taking out every part and stuff so if anybody wants them as reference or just bc let me know, but here are my pistons #1 + #6 expierneced the worst. I only put 7k on the engine and I did a retune, complete VANOS job, both tabs broke, and the guy before me swapped SMG to 6MT in a a garage.

Any info, insights, comments, considerations, or anything is greatly appreciated!

Thank you again,
Anthony

[stash1]

Or... you can do both.

Both what?

[bjz!]

Inconel is used widely in F1 cars, and really unnecessary for probably all but the most extreme NA applications...it's mostly used to handle the extreme heat in FI applications. Ferrea valves are fine as well, and yes, stick w/stainless valves. Titanium isn't needed/necessary or even desirable for 99% of street applications. Use the money saved from not buying fancy titanium/Inconel parts and spend it on quality pot work.

Or... you can do both.

[stash1]

In the case of valves, would going Inconel be the best way? I know Ferrea is a well-reputed brand, but how does Supertech fare as well? I'm assuming that stainless steel is the best way to go and not titanium? Would it make sense to have a different valve material for the exhaust side to handle heat better? Finally, oversized valves?

Inconel is used widely in F1 cars, and really unnecessary for probably all but the most extreme NA applications...it's mostly used to handle the extreme heat in FI applications. Ferrea valves are fine as well, and yes, stick w/stainless valves. Titanium isn't needed/necessary or even desirable for 99% of street applications. Use the money saved from not buying fancy titanium/Inconel parts and spend it on quality port work.

[stash1]

Looks like MSSMapper will allow you to do this.

Ahhh, sheesh, yeah...I completely forgot-derp. I need to hang out in the coding/tuning section more often-lol.

[digger]

E85 and 13:1 and proper head work, schrick 14mm 288/280 cams plus the usual suspects

[HassanEido]

Feffman Just run e85 higher compression has never been easier👍 you'll need a pump upgrade and injectors and a tune (not a fan of piggybacks).
A csl intake is a must for your goals

[Feffman]

...... Im not a fan of strokers since they cost way too much (factor in the 5k crank) and the s54 is already out of square. So stroking it even more will further skew that, and they don't live that long... Maybe 50k?

I'm with Hassan on this. Remember higher compression is likely going to require expensive 100 octane fuel at $10 per gallon.

Before swapping to the Bimmerworld race exhaust (noticeable performance difference) from the Supersprint race exhaust with stock compression, stock rods/pistons, Dinan intake, Schrick 288/280 cams and a EPIC tune, I'm at 356.61 whp and 260.16 foot pounds. I had an intermittent VANOS issue that was recently solved with a new plug as well. I need to get it back on the dyno to see if the numbers have improved with exhaust and VANOS fix. I've got to think some head work, forged internals ($2,500 for rods and pistons), maybe a CSL style intake, balance & blueprint from a quality builder like Partee would get me pretty close to 400WHP.

Feff

[HassanEido]

Well, we've gone up to 392 whp on 288 280s and 12:1 compression only. A stroker will definitely bridge the gap with the right tune. Maybe even half a point of compression up to 12.5:1 on E85.. Will surely get you there.
Im not a fan of strokers since they cost way too much (factor in the 5k crank) and the s54 is already out of square. So stroking it even more will further skew that, and they don't live that long... Maybe 50k?

[Obioban]

Partee Racing has the engine builder than built BMW's race engines during the s54 era. If we were doing an engine build, that's where I'd sent it to be done. Carbahn or Lang will likely also get you good results, but IMO Partee is in a league of their own.

I would avoid VAC like the plague. They built an engine for a friend of mine, and used too much gasket maker, clogging a passageway. Their fix, so that they didn't have to remove/disassemble the engine again, was to drill a new oil passageway in the block and then do an oil change to "address" (nope) the oil shavings that created inside the engine. VAC par

The potential for things to go horribly wrong goes up exponentially with internal components other than cams. I like to DIY many things, but I don't think I'd be comfortable DIYing an engine build with anything other than stock parts-- I know just enough to know that I don't know what I should be looking for/checking for as I go.