Need advice on followers

[CrisSilberGrau]

Have you had oil analysis done? what oil are you using and how did you break them in?

There are several sources of premature failure

• poor oil
• contaminated oil (fuel, coolant or debris)
• lack of oil
• poor metallurgy
• incorrect breakin

Fresh oil change before the cam install, fresh oil change the night before dyno. Redline 5w50. (almost $400 in that alone spent lol)
No reason to suspect any contaminants, oil, coolant, etc, cars one of the few in Canada that makes rock solid power and I maintain it to the best of my abilities.
Break in was done at start up, for 10 mins 3k rpm, and the rest mentioned in my posts.
Installation done by a very experienced tec that only works on S54/52/62 era type cars.

I think this is just a case of poor metallurgy and a general change in the manufacturing process of the cams. This is done to cut cost, and to force the user to buy followers. Unless we know of someone in the community that has gone the same route as me, and purchased cams recently (past 1 or 2 years) and has gotten different results.

[S54B32]

FYI: 320is followers are official, after being long time on back order, switched to NLA.
Not all shops have them listed as NLA, but they are definitely not longer delivered from bmw. So only DLC alternative is schrick followers for around 2000€

[digger]

You see old pics of s54 schrick cams and they are chilled cast iron so it’s not new. They probably only use steel when they can’t source the iron ones

[digger]

digger Ok got it now, so cylinder 6 is still the worst even after new followers were put in, although OEM not D(iamonddick)LC. The worst lobe is the last one, it has a distinct flat spot rather then the stepped look on the other cyl 6 lobe (the penultimate one).

Important to note there is no other damage on the cams other than the exhaust of cyl6 and cyl3 intake just one lobe.

jet_dogg The reason I think they are all the same, the MZ4 owner got new Schrick 288s and DLCs after the catcams issue, and the cams looked similar to mine ie. polished look not the old school coated (black) look.

Expensive and tough lesson to learn, this really tested my resolve with this car. But it's the dream, ill recoup somehow and get back at it after a break.

EDIT 2: at the time of inspection before the dyno when everything looked great, there was no wear on any of the lobes. Or any sign of wear. There was however that noise that I covered in the dyno thread.

Have you had oil analysis done? what oil are you using and how did you break them in?

There are several sources of premature failure

• poor oil
• contaminated oil (fuel, coolant or debris)
• lack of oil
• poor metallurgy
• incorrect breakin

[CrisSilberGrau]

CrisSilberGrau Have you reached out to Schrick to ask about a recent change in metallurgy? Poked around on their site and couldn't find anything that talked about it

I haven't, might be worth it. Not sure they will answer. Cams just dont look like this anymore:

[heinzboehmer]

CrisSilberGrau Have you reached out to Schrick to ask about a recent change in metallurgy? Poked around on their site and couldn't find anything that talked about it

[CrisSilberGrau]

Cris, he's asking what the lobes on the cam for cyl 6 look like after install of new followers.

Sorry to hear about this man, I don't know if I believe they are actually cast now because I don't see any other literature anywhere regarding the mfg process but anything is possible.

I've always advocated for new followers going against the common forum recommendation of not needing them for either profile set.

digger Ok got it now, so cylinder 6 is still the worst even after new followers were put in, although OEM not D(iamonddick)LC. The worst lobe is the last one, it has a distinct flat spot rather then the stepped look on the other cyl 6 lobe (the penultimate one).

Important to note there is no other damage on the cams other than the exhaust of cyl6 and cyl3 intake just one lobe.

jet_dogg The reason I think they are all the same, the MZ4 owner got new Schrick 288s and DLCs after the catcams issue, and the cams looked similar to mine ie. polished look not the old school coated (black) look.

Expensive and tough lesson to learn, this really tested my resolve with this car. But it's the dream, ill recoup somehow and get back at it after a break.

EDIT 2: at the time of inspection before the dyno when everything looked great, there was no wear on any of the lobes. Or any sign of wear. There was however that noise that I covered in the dyno thread.

[jet_dogg]

Cris, he's asking what the lobes on the cam for cyl 6 look like after install of new followers.

Sorry to hear about this man, I don't know if I believe they are actually cast now because I don't see any other literature anywhere regarding the mfg process but anything is possible.

I've always advocated for new followers going against the common forum recommendation of not needing them for either profile set.

[Pklauser]

Im not sure I understand the question. For my purposes it was new cams on used oem followers, with two new ones used in Cyl6 due to wear patterns I did not like the look of. Cyl6 is shit for everything, more heat, less oil all the good stuff. Also had one of the highest compressions when tested with oem cams, go figure.

I think the question is leading towards whether or not the lobes on cylinder 6, which had new followers, had any issues. This would help corroborate that reusing old followers is actually what caused your quick wear issues on the new cam.

[CrisSilberGrau]

are the lobes related to the new followers ok?

Im not sure I understand the question. For my purposes it was new cams on used oem followers, with two new ones used in Cyl6 due to wear patterns I did not like the look of. Cyl6 is shit for everything, more heat, less oil all the good stuff. Also had one of the highest compressions when tested with oem cams, go figure.

[CrisSilberGrau]

jet_dogg No idea bro, I cant say for certain when this disclaimer has been posted, and im not sure it was there when I bought but dont have the proof so it doesnt matter. Dont think it would either way, there's a million ways that part warranties can be denied. I know however, that this disclaimer about followers (not the "cast" description) was not there for 280/272 in 2020 maybe even 2021 on almost all the sites we frequent ie. BW/ECS/Turner/VAC. For 280s it was always optional. Not anymore.

[CrisSilberGrau]

I'm honestly not sure that when i bought the cams back in November 2022, that bimmerworld had their website updated with the new verbiage. But it's there now.

This is how they look brand new. No longer coated black.

And ofcourse they were installed by an experienced mechanic to Schrick bulletin spec, he's done this almost a hundred times. And he's never seen Schrick fail like this, but he's also never seen new ones either. Other than mine and another M Z4 where cat cams failed gloriously because they also are now "cast" and require this dlc followers. That case was way worse with around 3mm being shaved off the cam lobes and not just two cylinders like mine but all of them.

Break in also done at initial start up, 3k rpm for a set time. All on new oil. Etc etc. 1000km part throttle under 4k for 500km and another 500km rarely up to 6k. Varrying rpm ranges not hwy driving.

Dynoed, Hassan did great car did great. Had pretty good compression numbers with stock cams, but the top side was too noisy and i needed to see everything so that when this was uncovered.


Cylinder 6 was an issue beforehand when the stock cams were off, didn't like the followers how they looked. Replaced with two new OEM that the mechanic had in stock. Before the Dyno we checked valves lash and adjusted. Everything looked fine. After Dyno the noise i complained about in the Dyno thread got more pronounced (which is not the cause of this, it's still Vanos related) but it led to finding this out.

Feels shit cause shit ain't cheap in CAD, and also after experiencing cams i can't really go back to stock. So yah, i can't in good conscience recommend anyone get cams without followers. What could have been a 3-4k job with 280/72s is gone now. I chose that profile of cam, and make ofcourse, on the basis of the OGs here who've done it before. A main component was the lack of followers needed. Compound that with the fact that schmiedmann doesn't have P45/P54 followers. There's only 17 in all of North America apparently. And shcrick is $88 a peice times 24, plus conversion duties and shipping, fml.

[Syfon]

If anyone has updated info on any cam followers it would be a great help, looks like some are backordered and some places are sold out.

PM'd

[jet_dogg]

Updated information is that no matter what cams you get, doesn’t matter the profile, new followers are required. I bought new schrick cams (280/72) this past year in November installed this spring on my car, even replaced two exhaust followers on cylinder 6. I got stepped cams now.

Schrick cams are now “cast” per new products description. I’m confident this was a new development in the c19 era. Even vac didn’t have the required anecdote for this profile cams. They also come polished, cam lobes are no longer coated black. Unfortunately I’m out a lot of money cause warranties are not honoured unless you get their proprietary followers.

Now as of when? Where'd you get this info Cris?

[digger]

Updated information is that no matter what cams you get, doesn’t matter the profile, new followers are required. I bought new schrick cams (280/72) this past year in November installed this spring on my car, even replaced two exhaust followers on cylinder 6. I got stepped cams now.

Schrick cams are now “cast” per new products description. I’m confident this was a new development in the c19 era. Even vac didn’t have the required anecdote for this profile cams. They also come polished, cam lobes are no longer coated black. Unfortunately I’m out a lot of money cause warranties are not honoured unless you get their proprietary followers.

are the lobes related to the new followers ok?