ICE mode on track

[eacmen]

At summit point right now. Just felt ice mode for the first time going into the carousel at Summit. Who has experienced it? Any way to mitigate it?

[bigjae46]

Basically you're overloading the ABS/DSC computer so it makes the car go straight. You have to release brake pressure and straighten the steering wheel like old school non-ABS brakes and reapply the brakes and steering.

The ABS controller is a Bosch unit. If you have a later model MK60 Bosch with a Bosch part number ending in 813.8 (IIRC) then you can flash in race ABS programming.

[Obioban]

Seems like the escalation tree is…
mk20 to mk60
mk60 to 817.3 mk60
817.3 mk60 to race software 817.3 mk60 (which eliminates dsc— not great if your car still sees any street use)

Most people seem to only trigger ice mode on the mk20, so hopefully that’s what you’re running.

sadly, every step is pretty expensive.

[eacmen]

Seems like the escalation tree is…
mk20 to mk60
mk60 to 817.3 mk60
817.3 mk60 to race software 817.3 mk60 (which eliminates dsc— not great if your car still sees any street use)

Most people seem to only trigger ice mode on the mk20, so hopefully that’s what you’re running.

sadly, every step is pretty expensive.

I am 2004 non-zcp MK60.

Not sure what rev mk60 though. I have it coded for m track and zcp brake bias.

Does that coding affect ABS?

This was second session of the day so track was a little cool.

[Wernd]

Basically you're overloading the ABS/DSC computer so it makes the car go straight. You have to release brake pressure and straighten the steering wheel like old school non-ABS brakes and reapply the brakes and steering.

The ABS controller is a Bosch unit. If you have a later model MK60 Bosch with a Bosch part number ending in 813.8 (IIRC) then you can flash in race ABS programming.

How is this done?

[bigjae46]

I am 2004 non-zcp MK60.

Not sure what rev mk60 though. I have it coded for m track and zcp brake bias.

Does that coding affect ABS?

This was second session of the day so track was a little cool.

You can trigger ice mode with an MK60. You have to look on the physical ABS control module to see what version. I believe if its a ZCP then it has the 813.3. If its an MK60 non-ZCP, then it could be either version.

[bigjae46]

How is this done?

MK60 Standalone ABS Installation – 3DM Suspension (3dmmotorsport.com)

[Obioban]

I am 2004 non-zcp MK60.

Not sure what rev mk60 though. I have it coded for m track and zcp brake bias.

Does that coding affect ABS?

This was second session of the day so track was a little cool.

Almost certainly you don’t have a programmable mk60 if you don’t have a csl/zcp. As far as I can tell, 99.99% of the normal M3s do not.

That coding does not effect the ABS.

If this only happened to you once, or only happens in a specific circumstance, I’d ignore it or drive around it.

Failing that, you’re looking at $3000 in parts for the MK60, a pita project (changing the module is surprisingly annoying, having done this exact upgrade), and some secret price for the Motorsport firmware ($1000? $3000?)…. And after you do that, no more DSC for street use.

I’ve never actually looked— I wonder if you can disable ice mode on the MK60. There’s a lot of values in there that nobody ever plays with, because the consequences are high.

[eacmen]

Almost certainly you don’t have a programmable mk60 if you don’t have a csl/zcp. As far as I can tell, 99.99% of the normal M3s do not.

That coding does not effect the ABS.

If this only happened to you once, or only happens in a specific circumstance, I’d ignore it or drive around it.

Failing that, you’re looking at $3000 in parts for the MK60, a pita project (changing the module is surprisingly annoying, having done this exact upgrade), and some secret price for the Motorsport firmware ($1000? $3000?)…. And after you do that, no more DSC for street use.

I’ve never actually looked— I wonder if you can disable ice mode on the MK60. There’s a lot of values in there that nobody ever plays with, because the consequences are high.

Yeah i’m not going down the dedicated motorsportABS route.

I would drive around it but not even sure what caused it to begin with. Nothing in wheel speed data seemed to indicate any reason it would engage.

No faults recorded in ABS/DSC.

[Wernd]

At summit point right now. Just felt ice mode for the first time going into the carousel at Summit. Who has experienced it? Any way to mitigate it?

Summit Point main? What tires are you on and what did the car do?

[eacmen]

Summit Point main? What tires are you on and what did the car do?

Yup summit point main. Came down the chute into T5. Went to brake and they were hard as a rock. I modulated but wouldnt give me full brake pressure. I slowed but not enough went off onto the grass and re-joined.

200tw tires Hankook RS4
Stoptech trophy Kit with ST race sr33 pads.

Fluid flushed and bled before event.

Master Cylinder was replaced two events ago.

[bigjae46]

Yup summit point main. Came down the chute into T5. Went to brake and they were hard as a rock. I modulated but wouldnt give me full brake pressure. I slowed but not enough went off onto the grass and re-joined.

That sounds like ice mode. I'd try and ask if anyone behind you saw tire smoke, that would indicate that ABS wasn't working and locked up a tire.

Could also be a grip issue. I use RR's which I'm finding continually fall off until they cord. At the end of life for the RRs, I ran into a couple of times when ice mode kicked in.

I would say that more than slowing the car...getting terminal understeer is more of an indicator of ice mode. If you can't get it turned in at all, its ice mode.

[Wernd]

Yup summit point main. Came down the chute into T5. Went to brake and they were hard as a rock. I modulated but wouldnt give me full brake pressure. I slowed but not enough went off onto the grass and re-joined.

200tw tires Hankook RS4
Stoptech trophy Kit with ST race sr33 pads.

Fluid flushed and bled before event.

Master Cylinder was replaced two events ago.

Apparently I don't have my video from there. If I recall correctly aren't you coming into turn 5 and needing to get the car settled AND slowed. Is it possible that you didn't get the weight settled well enough and just got into abs with the front right wheel? And because of that the car just wouldn't slow?

I've only had my M3 to the track once now so I'm no expert I'm just asking questions.

I've had mine to Autobahn and entering turn 7 when I got on the brakes the car just wouldn't slow down. It didn't feel like abs, the car just wouldn't slow. Is that ice mode? I was on A052 and the track is very polished in that brake zone so I just blamed it on the tires. Took my buddy's car out which was on re71r and didn't have the problem there so I blamed the tires. I obviously need to research this more. I didn't even know this was a thing until this post. Not inspiring much confidence in this car at the limit

[Estoril]

At summit point right now. Just felt ice mode for the first time going into the carousel at Summit. Who has experienced it? Any way to mitigate it?

I was at the same event. Was it in Turn 5 right/soon after the racers ran?

[ridebikes]

For anyone reading this thread and didn't know what ice mode is (like me), I looked it up 💡 ❄️

"Ice Mode" is related to the ABS system believing that the car is sliding on ice so it reduces brake pressure and efficiency accordingly. It presents with a rock hard pedal with minimal braking ability.