Trying to decide: e46 M3 vs F82 M4 vs 997.2

[Nate047]

Needs paddles. 3 pedals annoy me.

If this really TRULY sums up your approach to cars, you should just get a 997 cab.

[Aeko]

If this really TRULY sums up your approach to cars, you should just get a 997 cab.

If by "sums up my approach to cars" you mean "how I interact with cars as a result of disability" then yes.

I'm really sick of having to defend my choice to buy a car I can actually drive because so many car people are of the opinion a proper sports car needs to have 3 pedals, and feel the need to harangue anyone who does not fully agree.

[Aeko]

I think every enthusiast car of the past decade has been brought up here. I think parameters need to be refined: rwd or awd, turbo or Na, autocross capable or comfortable..May I add the Aston Martin V8 Vantage, or that Maserati coupe, if comfort is a priority.

....But the E36 automatic has to be a disappointment. That car needs a manual.

Honestly I'm beginning to think my "Goldilocks" car may require a DCT swap so I'm looking at cars I know that's possible in, or at least has been done more than once by some random guy in his garage. I am thinking back to the E36 just because I know there's endless aftermarket and I do have a soft spot for them.

My preferences are:
-RWD
-NA
-Autocross capable

As far as comfort goes I mainly want an adjustable seating position and decently comfy seats. Ride quality is second to handling for this particular kind of weekend category I'm trying to find, as long as it doesn't have "break your spine" level of firm suspension.

Lighter would be sub 3000 lbs. Properly light would be sub 2500 lbs. or better yet, sub 2000 lbs. 1M isn't light. Try a '99 Porsche 996 early build, a 996 GT3 or a Boxster/Cayman 986/987. Or as I said previously, get a longnose 911 and have it hot-rodded- they are properly light. I have experience with a '70 911T with a 3.2 Carrera engine- works great when you're sub 2500 lbs. with 230 hp.

I don't like turbocharged power delivery, so I would recommend against it- the E46 is pretty nice with the 6 throttle bodies.

Go drive a ND Miata with proper suspension and tell me that isn't fun to drive. Flyin Miata V8 conversion on the ND would be pretty fantastic.

I didn't get it until I owned one- had a '90 Miata. Lightness trumps all. (not just Miata, but Lotus, etc.) Go Turo a Miata for a week in good weather and I think even with a relatively stock suspension, you'll get it. There's a damn good reason why the McLaren F1 and the GMA T.50 are sub 2600 lbs. It's much easier to make a good responsive chassis and suspension when you're not straddled with tons of weight.

Noted. I'm not sure I'm up for owning a classic 911. I do really love the look of them but just the thought of owning a 40+ year old car...ehhh.

I have considered 996s or the Cayman. I'll look around again for those.

I like Miatas, but 2 seaters give me legitimate claustrophobia, I cannot stand sitting in them. I don't know what it is about having the rear seats that makes me more comfortable. I'm also not keen on convertibles, but open to it if the car proves to be a good option with a hard vert top.

Btw, thanks everyone for playing 20 questions with me being a picky-ass car enthusiast.

[jvit27]

997.2 will feel like an upgrade from the E46, F82 will not. The 3.8L is good but is not as special as the S54, which is more akin to a smaller displacement Mezger. M4 is arguably a better daily driver, but it will leave something to be desired for your use case.

PDK is much better than SMG, as is DCT too. (FWIW my E46 is SMG).

IMO 981 Cayman is the move. Later gen PDK, nicer interior, better handling than the 911, and quite a bit newer. Some very good deals to be had on anything that doesn't have 3 pedals

[EthanolTurbo]

What about a 2012+ ISF, RCF or GSF? Each offers bulletproof reliability, stable resale values, excellent performance on and off track, good aftermarket support, a fun throaty engine that'll take a beating and never let you down, along with very nice 8 speed transmissions. They're kind of an unsung hero amongst daily driven V8 performance cars.

[Nate047]

If by "sums up my approach to cars" you mean "how I interact with cars as a result of disability" then yes.

I'm really sick of having to defend my choice to buy a car I can actually drive because so many car people are of the opinion a proper sports car needs to have 3 pedals, and feel the need to harangue anyone who does not fully agree.

Maybe next time say something about how you can’t drive 3 pedals due to a disability. That’s very different than saying 3 pedals “annoy” you, which implies something else entirely.

[werfer]

e46 m3 with DCT swap sounds like the ticket if that swap is possible/reasonable.

[Toby22]

Excuse me? I don't owe it to you or anyone to explain that I have a disability. Three pedals do literally annoy me, that's not a lie, but for a different reason than you're expecting.

You obviously have no fucking idea what its like living with a disability, so don't go around telling me how to live my life.

To borrow a phrase I hate because it absolutely applies... Check your privilege, dude.

Whoa, that escalated quickly…

[IamFODI]

Was called into this thread because... Well, for obvious reasons.

Aeko: Your backlash is completely understandable. It sucks to be on the defensive at all times amidst people who don't understand and might not even want to. Especially because we pro-manual folks can get pretty elitist and aggressive. I can see how that might prompt you to feel excluded and defensive.

I also think your comments also get at something else that's vital: we should be giving each other the benefit of the doubt. It's not for others to offer unsolicited judgments of your preferences.

Let me assure you that I don't think anyone here meant to call you to account for your disability. I bet if you had said at the outset that you don't want stick for physiological reasons, everyone – including Nate047 – would have advised you accordingly, in good faith. I know a lot of manual elitists, including some real jerks – and not one is enough of a jerk to extend their elitism to people with physiological concerns that make driving stick difficult.

We're all buying and driving the cars we can, each of us for their own constellation of reasons and constraints. It's been my experience that, when people are open about the barriers they've overcome to join the community, that generally makes people more welcoming, not less – and the bigger the barrier, the heartier the welcome. Some exceptions, but that seems to be the rule. If anyone cares to prove the opposite, fuck around and find out.

I need to offer a mea culpa: I was among the people who initially misread your reason for not wanting stick. Not knowing you personally, I had assumed your comment was a preemptive and dismissive reaction to the pro-manual crowd, of whom I'm a loud-and-proud member. Looking back on it now, I can't see anything that makes any other interpretation obvious in the absence of background info. So, I can completely understand how others would read your comment differently from how you intended it. That might be worth bearing in mind in the future.

This all looks to me like a genuine and understandable miscommunication, so I'm not going to take any mod action on any posts made thus far. Let's all take lessons from this and move on.

[IamFODI]

Had to delete a post or two. Let's not get personal, guys.

Can we get this back on track, or do we have to lock the thread?

[Aeko]

What about a 2012+ ISF, RCF or GSF? Each offers bulletproof reliability, stable resale values, excellent performance on and off track, good aftermarket support, a fun throaty engine that'll take a beating and never let you down, along with very nice 8 speed transmissions. They're kind of an unsung hero amongst daily driven V8 performance cars.

I don't know if you saw, I drove the 2018 RC350 F sport and I'm not sure what kind of transmission it has but it tended to want to upshift on its own constantly. Do you know if the cars you listed have the same tendency? If not, they might be a good option. Before I bought my e46 M3 I really wanted an IS-F but I simply couldn't find one for sale. An RCF might be awesome! I did see one at a dealer lot but they wanted waaaay to much for me to consider it at the time.

[JaredU]

I don't know if you saw, I drove the 2018 RC350 F sport and I'm not sure what kind of transmission it has but it tended to want to upshift on its own constantly. Do you know if the cars you listed have the same tendency? If not, they might be a good option. Before I bought my e46 M3 I really wanted an IS-F but I simply couldn't find one for sale. An RCF might be awesome! I did see one at a dealer lot but they wanted waaaay to much for me to consider it at the time.

I just re-read your post on the RC… it wouldnt let you down shift in manual mode?

I use to daily an is350 and it will downshift no problem as long as that down shift doesn’t send the RPM passed redline. It also won’t upshift in manual mode unless you do it from what I remember. The car has an RR Racing tune on it though, not sure if that plays into it and I can’t remember what it was like before.

If you liked the RC, what about is500? I am debating switching mine for this, or an older IS-F. I find the 350 lacks about 100hp, albeit for higher reliability. I bought mine as I was commuting about 600kms a week and wanted something to rack miles on with high reliability.

That being said, although a bit boring in my opinion and not the greatest on fuel either, it is comfortable, and astonighingly reliable. It’s a 2015, and I bought it with 20k on it. Within 2 years I was up to 100k and other than regular oil changes etc, I’ve only had to replace the light bulb in the trunk.

It has pretty much been parked though since the beginning of covid, as I bought a Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor, and that has become my daily now

[Aeko]

I just re-read your post on the RC… it wouldnt let you down shift in manual mode?

I use to daily an is350 and it will downshift no problem as long as that down shift doesn’t send the RPM passed redline. It also won’t upshift in manual mode unless you do it from what I remember. The car has an RR Racing tune on it though, not sure if that plays into it and I can’t remember what it was like before.

If you liked the RC, what about is500? I am debating switching mine for this, or an older IS-F. I find the 350 lacks about 100hp, albeit for higher reliability. I bought mine as I was commuting about 600kms a week and wanted something to rack miles on with high reliability.

That being said, although a bit boring in my opinion and not the greatest on fuel either, it is comfortable, and astonighingly reliable. It’s a 2015, and I bought it with 20k on it. Within 2 years I was up to 100k and other than regular oil changes etc, I’ve only had to replace the light bulb in the trunk.

It has pretty much been parked though since the beginning of covid, as I bought a Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor, and that has become my daily now

It's possible it wasn't in Manual mode as I only spent 10 minutes in the car and didn't get a chance to really go over all the controls, thanks for the input!

I realize now the RC F I saw was the track package, that's why it was so expensive. The normal spec ones are actually very reasonable... I may have to scope one out. The reliability and comfort is a pretty big draw... I would like to be able to drive it 500 miles without a second thought if I could have it all.

[EthanolTurbo]

I don't know if you saw, I drove the 2018 RC350 F sport and I'm not sure what kind of transmission it has but it tended to want to upshift on its own constantly. Do you know if the cars you listed have the same tendency? If not, they might be a good option. Before I bought my e46 M3 I really wanted an IS-F but I simply couldn't find one for sale. An RCF might be awesome! I did see one at a dealer lot but they wanted waaaay to much for me to consider it at the time.

Gotta put it in manual mode. The default drive mode is more for comfort and fuel efficiency. I think you should take an extended test drive in them.

[JaredU]

It's possible it wasn't in Manual mode as I only spent 10 minutes in the car and didn't get a chance to really go over all the controls, thanks for the input!

I realize now the RC F I saw was the track package, that's why it was so expensive. The normal spec ones are actually very reasonable... I may have to scope one out. The reliability and comfort is a pretty big draw... I would like to be able to drive it 500 miles without a second thought if I could have it all.

Sounds like the is500 is your car