Trying to decide: e46 M3 vs F82 M4 vs 997.2

[Tbonem3]

Feel is the opposite of what we're talking about. We're saying cars may be getting "better" depending on certain metrics, yet they're not more fun. And companies aren't selling the experience or feel anymore (like BMW and Mazda really were). Maybe Mazda at least can still claim to care about the experience.

[Zack]

is this like, your first day on these forums? bmw enthusiasts are among the sassiest out there when it comes to arguing about how great their cars "feel"

No! lol and I agree, just stating the obvious, without us e46 M3 guys constantly on our soapbox, how would anyone know that other cars don't feel as good or fun as an e46!

[Aeko]

I have a 997.2 c2s and my e46 and both are great cars. The Porsche drives different. Feels different. But how my m3 is set up, it feels a lot rarer. The Porsche while still I think peak 911 still feels great. Both enjoyable cars d I know the feeling of gt3 of bust crap but they are so ridiculous. Find a good c2s and you won't regret it.

Can the C2S be as fun on the street as the e46 M3?

Another point of comparison here, the steering in my e39 M5 feels more enjoyable to me the M3 did. I love being able to change the weight in sport mode, but I honestly prefer the lighter weight because I have shoulder issues. The on center feel is infinitely better and seems more connected. If I moved the wheel even a few mm I could feel the car start to change direction whereas the M3 I could hardly tell the wheel was doing anything.

[Aeko]

With the price of E46 Ms coming back down to somewhere more sensible, just pick up another one.

Believe me, if I could have both I would

Can't help but think a Carrera, any Carrera, is a different car. I'd dare say an M wants to be what a Porsche GT car is, or what Porsche can do with their better basic sport car chassis and a GT budget/brief. Porsche is a step up from BMW on the luxury and badge ladder. Obviously the newer BMW cars have been neutered down a little bit, but the E46 M3 is a rawer experience than a Carrera IMO. A 997.2 will also be a newer generation and will be a completely different car. Would you consider a first gen Audi R8 for a more "exotic" experience?
Regards

I think I'm kind of tired of the raw experience. I didn't like feeling beat up after taking the M3 on a road trip

I have looked at the R8 but I think the risk of maintenance costs is scaring me away. Plus they seem difficult to work on having to lay on the side of the car to get to the engine

[usdmej]

wildcard option for OP

Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio

- by all accounts a pure drivers car
- acclaimed ZF 8 speed auto
- you'll probably be in your garage a lot LOL
- could also possibly replace your E39 m5 too

[Altaran]

wildcard option for OP

Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio

- by all accounts a pure drivers car
- acclaimed ZF 8 speed auto
- you'll probably be in your garage a lot LOL
- could also possibly replace your E39 m5 too

Not a bad wildcard. It even comes with double wishbone front suspension.

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[oceansize]

OP after reading all your comments and others you owe to yourself to drive a Mach 1 Automatic. Find one local and drive it. I'll be surprised if you don't like it.

1. Exhaust can be made civil with a button.
2. Exhaust and engine noise is awesome if you want it.
3. Comfort mode is quite comfortable.
4. Track mode is quite raw if you want it. Steering is a little twitchy.
5. Mod community is HUGE.
6. Mods are generally cheaper since built on the standard Mustang GT architecture.
7. It is reliable in my experience.
8. Fun to drive factor is very high.
9. Has a transmission oil cooler for the automatic that a standard GT doesn't and the tune is different.
10. Engine oil cooler from the GT350.
11. Comes with Sport Cup 2s if you get top end and well they are quite grippy as we know.
12. Magneride is really good when pushed.
13. Made in Murica.

I can't comment on ease of DIY as I haven't done anything yet other than drive it and change the oil.

For new, or close to new, be prepared to spend 67 to 77k for top of the line. Worth every penny and vastly cheaper than anything else (outside a Camaro 1LE but visibility, ugh) new and roughly equivalent in specs.

[stephen]

OP after reading all your comments and others you owe to yourself to drive a Mach 1 Automatic. Find one local and drive it. I'll be surprised if you don't like it.

1. Exhaust can be made civil with a button.
2. Exhaust and engine noise is awesome if you want it.
3. Comfort mode is quite comfortable.
4. Track mode is quite raw if you want it. Steering is a little twitchy.
5. Mod community is HUGE.
6. Mods are generally cheaper since built on the standard Mustang GT architecture.
7. It is reliable in my experience.
8. Fun to drive factor is very high.
9. Has a transmission oil cooler for the automatic that a standard GT doesn't and the tune is different.
10. Engine oil cooler from the GT350.
11. Comes with Sport Cup 2s if you get top end and well they are quite grippy as we know.
12. Magneride is really good when pushed.
13. Made in Murica.

I can't comment on ease of DIY as I haven't done anything yet other than drive it and change the oil.

For new, or close to new, be prepared to spend 67 to 77k for top of the line. Worth every penny and vastly cheaper than anything else (outside a Camaro 1LE but visibility, ugh) new and roughly equivalent in specs.

Why not just get a PP GT used for half that? TBH it seems like the Mach 1 is a waste if you're not getting the manual for the Tremec.

[oceansize]

Why not just get a PP GT used for half that? TBH it seems like the Mach 1 is a waste if you're not getting the manual for the Tremec.

You didn't read OPs later posts, he needs an automatic for what sounds like health reasons. I wouldn't argue a used PP with magneride and active exhaust (new is $53k to $57k). Good car. I just love the styling, and my Tremec, in my Mach 1 (I have a manual).

[stephen]

You didn't read OPs later posts, he needs an automatic for what sounds like health reasons. I wouldn't argue a used PP with magneride and active exhaust. Good car. I just love the styling, and my Tremec, in my Mach 1 (I have a manual).

I did read his posts. I was just saying that it doesn't really make sense to get the Mach 1 if it's not a manual. Well optioned GT PP 10 speed is almost the same car for a fraction of the price.

[oceansize]

I did read his posts. I was just saying that it doesn't really make sense to get the Mach 1 if it's not a manual. Well optioned GT PP 10 speed is almost the same car for a fraction of the price.

I would need to drive both side by side in automatic form to see what the difference in tuning is and how that impacts fun factor. Oil coolers can be had aftermarket. So yeah, wouldn't argue too hard.

[Aeko]

wildcard option for OP, Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio

Not a fan of Alfa styling or Italian reliability issues

OP after reading all your comments and others you owe to yourself to drive a Mach 1 Automatic. Find one local and drive it. I'll be surprised if you don't like it.

Bet. There's one near me, I'm going to see if they'll actually let me drive it tomorrow.

Well optioned GT PP 10 speed is almost the same car for a fraction of the price.

Are there any appreciable differences in things like interior quality / trim materials between a Mach 1 and GT? And it seems like the performance package is mostly just... brakes, diff, and some other kind of superfluous stuff like gauges?


Finally test drove an F82 M4 today, decided it wasn't the car for me. I really liked it but I totally get why people say the E46 feels more analog. I absolutely LOVE the look and interior of the F8x but the turbo L6 doesn't really do it for me noise wise, and the driving experience on road use makes it feel kind of like a toy to me even at spirited driving speeds.

Also test drove an RC350 F-sport for shits and giggles while I was there, and I have to say I was very impressed with it. The interior is phenomenal and overall it drove and rode very well, albeit it was much more insulated feeling in both the steering and road feel and noise. Side note: ventilated seats ROCK here in Texas. If the next car I buy was ever optioned with them I'm going to look for that or retrofit them if possible. Honestly the biggest problem with the RC350, other than the fact it's so quiet I thought I was doing 45 when I was actually going 90, is that it nannies the shifts. I think I was at about 3,500 RPM in 3rd and slowing down, and it would NOT let me downshift. The M4 (and also my M3) didn't care and let me downshift it right up to redline as long as it had a low enough engine speed. I drove a new G70 before my M3 was totaled and it had the same shift nannies.

Still looking for a Carrera or maybe Cayman near me to test drive, and an E9x M3 for good measure. Went by one place but it looks like they closed early.

[Icecream]

GTR.
Did this come up already?

[oceansize]

Are there any appreciable differences in things like interior quality / trim materials between a Mach 1 and GT? And it seems like the performance package is mostly just... brakes, diff, and some other kind of superfluous stuff like gauges?

The interior of a well spec'd GT is close but I recall the Mach 1 as being better. I think it was the gauge cluster mostly and little touches if I remember correctly.

GT Performance package doesn't have magneride or active exhaust. To me both are a must have. So on top of the GT performance package you would still have to get magneride and active exhaust as add-ons. Say $55k to $58k new or close to new.

GT Perf Package Includes:
• 19"x9" (F) 19" x 9.5" (R) Ebony Black Painted Aluminum Wheels
• 255/40 R10 (F) 275/40 R19 (R) (Summer Only) Tires
• Brembo™ Six-Piston Front Brake Calipers - Black with Larger Rotors
• "Engine Spun" Aluminum instrument Panel
• Gauge Pack (Oil Pressure and Vacuum)
• Heavy-duty Front Springs
• K-Brace
• Larger Radiator
• Performance Rear Wing
• Black Painted Strut-Tower Brace
• TORSEN® Differential with 3.73 Axle Ratio (Manual)
• TORSEN® Differential with 3.55 Axle Ration (Automatic)
• Unique Chassis Tuning
• Unique Stability Control, EPAS and ABS Tuning
• Upsized Rear Sway Bar
• Front Splitter


The Mach 1 has magneride and the active exhaust by default and then you can add the Mach 1 Handling package.

The Mach 1 Handling Package Includes
• 19” X 10.5” (F) 19” X 11” (R) Tarnished Dark-painted Aluminum Wheels
• 305/30R19 (F) 315/30R19 (R) Tires
• Performance Rear Spoiler with Gurney Flap
• Performance Front Aero Splitter
• Revised Chassis Tuning
• Rear-Seat – Split-bench, folding
• Rear-Wheel Lip Molding – Black
• Adjustable Strut Top Mounts (Installed at the plant)

My two current Fords:

[Aeko]

GTR.
Did this come up already?

Too far out of my price range