Crank no start on first attempt after sitting

[PSUEng]

I've had this same issue for a long time. Recently getting DMTL code (can't recall which) so I'll be doing that soon and maybe the connecting filter.

[timpnw]

PSUEng I'm curious more than anything as I continue to struggle for clues. Can you post the specific code it's spitting out?

[eacmen]

Whats weird is that my car normally fires up first try. Past couple weeks been getting colder. I’ve been having similar issues as op. First crank no start then second crank fires right up.

Maybe its related to ambient temp?

Or does fuel quality change seasonally?

/shrug


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[T.J.]

I had this on my old M. It was funny you could crank it for as long as you wanted on the first try and it wouldn’t even sputter. 2nd crank started immediately.

[ethan]

Either a bad fuel pump check valve or the PTFE hose connecting the fuel pump to the carrier is leaking around the barb.

[Nico]

Dropping off car at the shop on Wednesday, I'll update thread and see what they find. Can't live with this for long, hasn't been starting on first attempt even just sitting in parking lot after an 8 hour shift. Still starts up right up second time

[jdamore44]

Yeah, I've seen this issue talked about over the years a lot. I have the same issue. I haven't seen a definitive solution or explanation through the countless threads I've seen. Please fill us in on what you find.

[PSUEng]

PSUEng I'm curious more than anything as I continue to struggle for clues. Can you post the specific code it's spitting out?

I wont' have access to the car until the weekend but yes, I will. I believe the first time I had a code a few months (and I cleared it), it was P1434 "Diagnostic Module Tank Leakage"--which is likely a gas cap--but I have a new cap! There are separate P codes for DMTL leak pump failures AND evap leaks and purge valve failures. So, I'll scan it this weekend--it may be my failing cat codes I've been getting lately.

[Nico]

Sent the shop the vids before I went in. “would be difficult to test on this vehicle as the fuel rail is difficult to position with the supply line attached” and they said they’d start with injectors which is about $800.

Decided not to go, not sure if I would drop $800 on something I’m not even sure is the issue. Guess I have to get another opinion and live with it for a little.

[ethan]

Sent the shop the vids before I went in. “would be difficult to test on this vehicle as the fuel rail is difficult to position with the supply line attached” and they said they’d start with injectors which is about $800.

Decided not to go, not sure if I would drop $800 on something I’m not even sure is the issue. Guess I have to get another opinion and live with it for a little.

If your problem is like mine was, you'll get zero combustion on the first attempt at cranking, but as soon as you cycle the key it's as if nothing's wrong. There's no way all 6 injectors failed simultaneously in such a way as to cause zero combustion until cycling the key. Don't know why they would suggest that.

Either a bad fuel pump check valve or the PTFE hose connecting the fuel pump to the carrier is leaking around the barb.

I've had this problem in two different E46 M3s and in both cases the problem persisted when swapping in a Walbro pump. I only fixed the issue by replacing the PTFE hose and it worked exactly the same way in both of my M3s. EIther throw an OE pump at the problem (new hose included), or get a Walbro and E46 M3 pump install kit from Radium. Pumps from eBay are often counterfeit.

Edit: Could also just try a new PTFE hose from Radium on the stock pump, but I'd get a new pump just to rule out a failed check valve in the stock pump while you're in there. Stock pump is still the easiest solution, but it's $$$.

http://www.radiumauto.com/Fuel-Pump-...BMW-P2087.aspx

http://www.radiumauto.com/Walbro-GSS...Pump-P533.aspx

[Nico]

If your problem is like mine was, you'll get zero combustion on the first attempt at cranking, but as soon as you cycle the key it's as if nothing's wrong. There's no way all 6 injectors failed simultaneously in such a way as to cause zero combustion until cycling the key. Don't know why they would suggest that.



I've had this problem in two different E46 M3s and in both cases the problem persisted when swapping in a Walbro pump. I only fixed the issue by replacing the PTFE hose and it worked exactly the same way in both of my M3s. EIther throw an OE pump at the problem (new hose included), or get a Walbro and E46 M3 pump install kit from Radium. Pumps from eBay are often counterfeit.

Edit: Could also just try a new PTFE hose from Radium on the stock pump, but I'd get a new pump just to rule out a failed check valve in the stock pump while you're in there. Stock pump is still the easiest solution, but it's $$$.

http://www.radiumauto.com/Fuel-Pump-...BMW-P2087.aspx

http://www.radiumauto.com/Walbro-GSS...Pump-P533.aspx

Appreciate the info. As of right now it always starts up right away second crank. And crank time at the second crank is almost an instantaneous start up so it might be the same issue.

[timpnw]

Nico - I have the same issue as you, but sometimes mine will start the first time after it warms up.... and sometimes even if it's warm after sitting for an hour it won't. I still think it's a fueling issue, but I replaced my pump and filter, which now only leads me to new injectors or injector rebuilds... and I'm at about 70k mi. I'm probably going to tackle injectors this winter. Let me know if you make progress and I'll do the same.

[Nico]

UPDATE:

The last time I drove the car I had to refill the gas tank (refill once maybe twice a month)

after I filled the tank, it sat for about 5 days. Went to start it up after 5 days and it started right up. No hiccups, no nothing. I wanted to drive it again the next day, and it starts right up again, no hiccups, no nothing.

[t44tq]

Is there a fuel regulator on the fuel rail that can go bad? I've had this issue on both of my S54 powered cars for some time. If the car sits for a long time, it often does not start on the first try. It will crank just fine, but not fire. Turn the key off and try again, and it fires 100% of the time on the second try. Battery is on a tender, fuel stabilizer in the tank, fuel filter is relatively new. I think it's a fuel pressure regulator. Definitely not ignition on my cars. Also definitely not VANOS related or anything electrical that I can find- no error codes, and the fact that it fires 100% the second time points to a fuel issue. I think the rail loses pressure when the car sits too long- could be leaky injectors, bad fuel pressure regulator or something else.

[eacmen]

Is there a fuel regulator on the fuel rail that can go bad? I've had this issue on both of my S54 powered cars for some time. If the car sits for a long time, it often does not start on the first try. It will crank just fine, but not fire. Turn the key off and try again, and it fires 100% of the time on the second try. Battery is on a tender, fuel stabilizer in the tank, fuel filter is relatively new. I think it's a fuel pressure regulator. Definitely not ignition on my cars. Also definitely not VANOS related or anything electrical that I can find- no error codes, and the fact that it fires 100% the second time points to a fuel issue. I think the rail loses pressure when the car sits too long- could be leaky injectors, bad fuel pressure regulator or something else.

Fuel regulator is near the fuel filter.


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