Adjustable rear control arms and camber plates

[Tones]

Car is on ohlins and stock hats want get some camber plates and adjustable rear control arms.

Car is street and hopefully auto x. No tracks around me. Just mtn roads.



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[Tbonem3]

Ground control or Turner "street" plates

SPC alloy aka Eibach arms with rubber. I think Turner makes some too (think there's even an "ECS" branded one), but you want alloy arm with rubber bushing. Most have solid bearing.

[AussieE46M3]

Ground control or Turner "street" plates

SPC alloy aka Eibach arms with rubber. I think Turner makes some too (think there's even an "ECS" branded one), but you want alloy arm with rubber bushing. Most have solid bearing.

I'm personally a big supporter of bearing mounted lower camber arms. Why do you feel rubber is best?

From my perspective, they don't increase harshness as cornering forces build slowly as the car rolls, springs/bar load up etc. The lower arm also experiences about double the force (in the opposite direction) of an upper arm in double arm setup so in terms of geometry consistency removing rubber in the lower is far more effective.

There's also reduced suspension binding as the bearing's don't add torsional force when hinging.

If you don't mind me plugging my own Tones, I've pasted a link. They're aluminium construction with camber adjustment made with a stainless steel jack screw at the wheel end which makes life easy.

https://cmpautoengineering.com/collections/bmw-e46/products/e36-e46-adjustable-camber-arms

[Tones]

I'm personally a big supporter of bearing mounted lower camber arms. Why do you feel rubber is best?

From my perspective, they don't increase harshness as cornering forces build slowly as the car rolls, springs/bar load up etc. The lower arm also experiences about double the force (in the opposite direction) of an upper arm in double arm setup so in terms of geometry consistency removing rubber in the lower is far more effective.

There's also reduced suspension binding as the bearing's don't add torsional force when hinging.

If you don't mind me plugging my own Tones, I've pasted a link. They're aluminium construction with camber adjustment made with a stainless steel jack screw at the wheel end which makes life easy.

https://cmpautoengineering.com/colle...le-camber-arms

Right on. Love your stuff. Looks well priced to. You make it in shop also?



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[AussieE46M3]

Right on. Love your stuff. Looks well priced to. You make it in shop also?



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Thanks mate! I do my best to offer top quality at a competitive price.

I outsource all cutting, folding, powder coating, machining etc. I assemble & package everything myself in the workshop.

If I can x10 my turnover, in house CNC machines become worthwhile. I'll keep trying to make it happen

[bmwfnatic]

The CSL "camber arm" comes with a bearing.
This for me was enough justification to disregard any rubber options. I went with the ones from CMP as linked above.

[Tbonem3]

I'm personally a big supporter of bearing mounted lower camber arms. Why do you feel rubber is best?

From my perspective, they don't increase harshness as cornering forces build slowly as the car rolls, springs/bar load up etc. The lower arm also experiences about double the force (in the opposite direction) of an upper arm in double arm setup so in terms of geometry consistency removing rubber in the lower is far more effective.

There's also reduced suspension binding as the bearing's don't add torsional force when hinging.

If you don't mind me plugging my own Tones, I've pasted a link. They're aluminium construction with camber adjustment made with a stainless steel jack screw at the wheel end which makes life easy.

There's no free lunch. I don't much care for people's opinions on the NVH effect, it's too subjective. For a street car, rubber is preferred.

BMW used rubber. I've been around long enough to see the full circles we've gone around in from stock to modified, back to stock.

No offense (I like your products), but you are a businessman, so your opinion is extremely biased. I'm not actually saying you're wrong. I've been though 20 years of businessman posting about products on forums, and what do you know? They were largely wrong (again, not saying you are absolutely).

This is a forum. OP asked, so I answered. You can answer, anyone can answer. OP can make up his mind.

[K-Dawg]

Car is on ohlins and stock hats want get some camber plates and adjustable rear control arms.

Car is street and hopefully auto x. No tracks around me. Just mtn roads.



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Why? What's your alignment look like now?

[ac427]

The CSL "camber arm" comes with a bearing.
This for me was enough justification to disregard any rubber options. I went with the ones from CMP as linked above.

Sadly the genuine CSL rear arms went NLA a long time ago.

I have used the TMS rear camber arms for about 8 years. They are actually the race kit as apposed to the street version.

[repoman89]

I went from stock to the BW monoball bearing rear camber arms last year and didn’t notice any NVH increase. Also running Ohlins R&T.

[AussieE46M3]

There's no free lunch. I don't much care for people's opinions on the NVH effect, it's too subjective. For a street car, rubber is preferred.

BMW used rubber. I've been around long enough to see the full circles we've gone around in from stock to modified, back to stock.

No offense (I like your products), but you are a businessman, so your opinion is extremely biased. I'm not actually saying you're wrong. I've been though 20 years of businessman posting about products on forums, and what do you know? They were largely wrong (again, not saying you are absolutely).

This is a forum. OP asked, so I answered. You can answer, anyone can answer. OP can make up his mind.

No offense taken. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I agree that many people selling a product (often on selling someone else's) will tunnel vision and blatantly ignore facts to push what they offer. It makes watching other peoples 'builds' on YouTube very hard to watch without cringing.

For that reason I understand why people stay in their comfort zone and can be sceptical of new ideas as there's plenty of misinformation out there.

I'll admit I was hoping there might have been a technical reason I may not have considered. My thinking can tunnel vision towards my own function objectives so I like to hear how others think to be more considerate of a broader communities needs when designing things. (new reinforcements being an example of this).

For what it's worth, I try not to push my own products but present the facts for what they are and let people make that decision for themselves. I did plug it because I felt it best answered the question to the problem however, whether mine or any other brands I would still be suggesting a bearing mounted lower arm.

I had complete design freedom when I designed mine and could have designed for a stock rubber bush (which would have been cheaper) however, I did make that decision for a reason. As BMWfnatic said, the engineers at BMW must have gone down the same train of thought arriving at the same conclusion which lead to the bearing mounted lower arms in CSL's. (If only they experimented with solid mounting the subframe bushings then to!).

I'm always happy to answer questions or better explain things if there's any part of the function you'd want to ask about. I've been wanting to write an article explaining how NVH works to helps people make informed decisions when building their cars as so often products are pushed on people without the reasoning to back it up. It think it would be a big help to the community to build something to their goals and desired level of compromise (as you said, it is subjective) rather than being told to blindly following the opinions of others.

[bigjae46]

Camber plates - there is one option IMO - Vorshlag.

Rear camber arms - I’ve used Turner with no issues.

[Gt4]

I would love to be able to run spherical bearings suspension parts on the street but here in Quebec, Canada, it’s impossible cause roads are terrible.

I did it in the past on a ZCP built track car. Was driving the car to the track. Second event, wasn’t even at the track and something felt loose in the rear. The Rogue Engineering sphericals in the camber arms got a loose in the teflon liner…

Same thing happened with Turner Motorsport race camber plates…

Lesson learned for me, street = rubber, track only = sphericals!

[AussieE46M3]

I would love to be able to run spherical bearings suspension parts on the street but here in Quebec, Canada, it’s impossible cause roads are terrible.

I did it in the past on a ZCP built track car. Was driving the car to the track. Second event, wasn’t even at the track and something felt loose in the rear. The Rogue Engineering sphericals in the camber arms got a loose in the teflon liner…

Same thing happened with Turner Motorsport race camber plates…

Lesson learned for me, street = rubber, track only = sphericals!

That is a big issue with sphericals and the grime they're exposed to on the road. Here in Aus we don't get salted roads as it doesn't snow in 99.9% of places.

I wonder how the longevity would be improved if using rod end boots. It's a rubber boot that slips over the whole rod end to seal the bearing surface from the elements similar to OE ball joints. I offer them on all the spherical products I offer.

[Gt4]

That is a big issue with sphericals and the grime they're exposed to on the road. Here in Aus we don't get salted roads as it doesn't snow in 99.9% of places.

I wonder how the longevity would be improved if using rod end boots. It's a rubber boot that slips over the whole rod end to seal the bearing surface from the elements similar to OE ball joints. I offer them on all the spherical products I offer.

Problem here are pothholes, not road debris.