S54 Dyno Database

[maupineda]

Will be a good data point. I have only seen one data point on a Euro Z4M where SS V1 gained 9hp over Euro headers but it lost torque in some areas low-mid range and gained a few torques up top. So not sure they would make a notable difference.

[EthanolTurbo]

Does anyone know how much there is between v1 stepped v euro headers? I am on a fence trying to decide if the change is worth

I will be installing V1s and full exhaust with cams etc and retuning in a couple weeks. Will show the difference on a dyno overlay between Euro headers + regular exhaust setup vs SSv1 + oversize dual exhaust.

It will be a bit tricky though with the cams going in as well, plus the lower temps vs when I dyno'd in the summer.

[maupineda]

Does anyone know how much there is between v1 stepped v euro headers? I am on a fence trying to decide if the change is worth

[stash1]

^^^Nice dyno progression/mod list...should prove very helpful to other members looking at bolt-on power mods.

[George Hill]

Scott, average of 294hp and 243lb-ft of torque. Stock, getting SS V1 headers, cats and Dinan muffler next, this is our baseline pull to see the delta in change.

Ok, here is where we are at with Scotts M3, we left off with the car making 294/243.

And as of now the setup is making 320/251 with an HTE Performance dyno tune, Supersprint V1 headers and cats, Supersprint oversized and resonated section 2 exhaust and Dinan CAI.

Here's the different combos we tested, not in order of testing but in order of what I think is most relevant. I know some people follow me on IG and I posted about this there as well. Some of the numbers are different because on that post I picked the "middle of the road" run and stated that, but here I took the totals from all the particular runs and averaged them.

*Note I should have put the AFR in the graphs but I just thought of that now and it took a bit of time making all these screen grabs and I don't feel like going back to do it now. Maybe I will in the future though.

2--Euro Tune, V1 & Cats 302-250 (In the past we found the Euro tune does well on Euro header cars so I expected that to be the same here, but I guess with the SS headers it was to lean for comfort so we switched back to the US tune for all the remaining "stock tune" tests).




3--US Tune, V1 & Cats 306-250




4--US Tune, V1 & Cats, S2, Stock Intake 308-250




5--US Tune, V1 & Cats, S2, CAI 309-249




6--HTE, V1 & Cats, S2, Stock Intake 320-253 (Note this tune was not optimized for the stock intake, but it is what HTE did for the Dinan and we just swapped back in the stock intake to see if there was a change.)




7--HTE, V1 & Cats, S2, CAI 320-251




8--Baseline to Final




I'm really surprised at the results of the Dinan CAI vs the Stock intake. We've seen about the opposite in change (small bump with the Dinan CAI vs stock) on a euro header car. I would be curious to know if there is something else that is now hindering the setup, maybe we will try an oversized intake elbow next? Also, we had been waiting on a new Dinan muffler so all of these tests were with a stock muffler. The Dinan is here so we will get it installed and schedule dyno time to see the change that one has. Also note that all of the runs were broken up over 3 different trips -- 1. Baseline, 2. Euro/US Tune with SS V1 & Cats, 3. All the remaining

[EthanolTurbo]

I am squaring together a kit using 5spd light weight
gear box. I am very stubborn on the tranny weight to
be as low as possible. Fuck those boat anchor 150lb+
which affects the car front to rear bias.... yeah yeah I get
it its low to the ground and back but it is still connected to
the engine!

It will have racing-oriented ratios.The gear box will be
track focused and street friendly!. 0-62mph will be okay
which is not important for our cars...

Regards,
Anri

I would be really interested in this kind of 5 speed swap in the future. Would love to stop by your shop sometime and see what you've got cooking up.

[ZiMMie]

Hi, im pretty new here but I found this forum due to a current search on S54 tuning issues I'm currently experiencing. Long story short, my 2003 LSB M3 is at Kassel in PA. The car is currently setup with a VF570+ kit running E85(@ 85% content), Kassel recommended injectors and plugs (1000cc I believe??), Radium fuel system to include microglass filter with press regulator, Walbro F900267 fuel pump rated for E85, electric fan setup, current headers are from bimmerworld custom single step with catless "magnaflow" full exhaust (Will be installing a full SS step/catless race exhaust before the next tune correction/session). This is the current build as it stands. The car had a DME issue due to an improperly installed tuned from a previous shop in MD that I will not name. That installed program put my BMW into limp mode and all kinds of EML and CEL lights with bad throttle response. The car was towed to PA and Matt (Kassel) managed to get the car properly coded and a basic tune put onto the car to make it operational and drivable under normal conditions and no throttle issues. Fast forward to the tuning process, currently the car is loosening power after 4k-5k (approx. 50+ or more hp). You could see the curve go up and drop off like a roller-coaster. That is without adding any timing or fuel or touching any parameters. For some reason or another, the car isn't happy at those rpms and its pulling timing (or detonating) as I was told. Matt advised me to do a VANOS test (which the car did pass with flying colors) to limit any mechanical factors. He later stated that it could be a DME related issues and swapped DMEs with a good working one to address the problem. Unfortunately the issue with the car on the dyno still exists at the 4k-5k rpms. Matt is pretty busy at the shop and had to put my car on the back burner until he can spend more time with the car. But in the mean time, I would like to post my situation on here to see if I could get some advice or information that could help with the problem.

Find another shop. That will make you a priority.

[ldmiller78]

If you have covered all the usual bases, the next step might be to check the custom parts in the fuel system or maybe one of the knock sensors is faulty. It would be nice to go back to stock to diagnose a weird problem like this, but it sounds like a fairly custom VF setup based on your description.

Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll pass this information to Matt. Yea my setup is kind of custom.

[Slideways]

Hi, im pretty new here but I found this forum due to a current search on S54 tuning issues I'm currently experiencing. Long story short, my 2003 LSB M3 is at Kassel in PA. The car is currently setup with a VF570+ kit running E85(@ 85% content), Kassel recommended injectors and plugs (1000cc I believe??), Radium fuel system to include microglass filter with press regulator, Walbro F900267 fuel pump rated for E85, electric fan setup, current headers are from bimmerworld custom single step with catless "magnaflow" full exhaust (Will be installing a full SS step/catless race exhaust before the next tune correction/session). This is the current build as it stands. The car had a DME issue due to an improperly installed tuned from a previous shop in MD that I will not name. That installed program put my BMW into limp mode and all kinds of EML and CEL lights with bad throttle response. The car was towed to PA and Matt (Kassel) managed to get the car properly coded and a basic tune put onto the car to make it operational and drivable under normal conditions and no throttle issues. Fast forward to the tuning process, currently the car is loosening power after 4k-5k (approx. 50+ or more hp). You could see the curve go up and drop off like a roller-coaster. That is without adding any timing or fuel or touching any parameters. For some reason or another, the car isn't happy at those rpms and its pulling timing (or detonating) as I was told. Matt advised me to do a VANOS test (which the car did pass with flying colors) to limit any mechanical factors. He later stated that it could be a DME related issues and swapped DMEs with a good working one to address the problem. Unfortunately the issue with the car on the dyno still exists at the 4k-5k rpms. Matt is pretty busy at the shop and had to put my car on the back burner until he can spend more time with the car. But in the mean time, I would like to post my situation on here to see if I could get some advice or information that could help with the problem.

If you have covered all the usual bases, the next step might be to check the custom parts in the fuel system or maybe one of the knock sensors is faulty. It would be nice to go back to stock to diagnose a weird problem like this, but it sounds like a fairly custom VF setup based on your description.

[ldmiller78]

Hi, im pretty new here but I found this forum due to a current search on S54 tuning issues I'm currently experiencing. Long story short, my 2003 LSB M3 is at Kassel in PA. The car is currently setup with a VF570+ kit running E85(@ 85% content), Kassel recommended injectors and plugs (1000cc I believe??), Radium fuel system to include microglass filter with press regulator, Walbro F900267 fuel pump rated for E85, electric fan setup, current headers are from bimmerworld custom single step with catless "magnaflow" full exhaust (Will be installing a full SS step/catless race exhaust before the next tune correction/session). This is the current build as it stands. The car had a DME issue due to an improperly installed tuned from a previous shop in MD that I will not name. That installed program put my BMW into limp mode and all kinds of EML and CEL lights with bad throttle response. The car was towed to PA and Matt (Kassel) managed to get the car properly coded and a basic tune put onto the car to make it operational and drivable under normal conditions and no throttle issues. Fast forward to the tuning process, currently the car is loosening power after 4k-5k (approx. 50+ or more hp). You could see the curve go up and drop off like a roller-coaster. That is without adding any timing or fuel or touching any parameters. For some reason or another, the car isn't happy at those rpms and its pulling timing (or detonating) as I was told. Matt advised me to do a VANOS test (which the car did pass with flying colors) to limit any mechanical factors. He later stated that it could be a DME related issues and swapped DMEs with a good working one to address the problem. Unfortunately the issue with the car on the dyno still exists at the 4k-5k rpms. Matt is pretty busy at the shop and had to put my car on the back burner until he can spend more time with the car. But in the mean time, I would like to post my situation on here to see if I could get some advice or information that could help with the problem.

[Anri]

What kit are you developing? I sell an adapter to mate the ZF8 to the S54 and its really the only custom part in my configuration (aside from the trans cooler).

I'll be honest that I have an affection for manual transmissions, my other daily driver is an E53 X5 with a 5MT, but driving this car its just such a hoot. I don't think I would ever put a clutch pedal back in it at this point, with the paddle shifters its just a riot to drive on the street AND on the track.

I am squaring together a kit using 5spd light weight
gear box. I am very stubborn on the tranny weight to
be as low as possible. Fuck those boat anchor 150lb+
which affects the car front to rear bias.... yeah yeah I get
it its low to the ground and back but it is still connected to
the engine!

It will have racing-oriented ratios.The gear box will be
track focused and street friendly!. 0-62mph will be okay
which is not important for our cars...

Regards,
Anri

[George Hill]

Crazy that it had 3.15's and still did decently but yeah those 4.44's dropped almost half a second in the 1/4! I think the craziest part is it's running all these with a slow 60 ft (2.2-2.3). With a 1.6-1.7 60 ft it would be running low 12's. In theory with cams, weight reduction and a good launch this car could be running mid to low 11's all motor. Really makes me want to Draggy my car and see what it does with stock cams vs upgraded cams, bigger exhaust and headers and 3.91 gears.

Yes, we were all blown away it had 3.15s in it, night and day difference in just the overall drivability everywhere.

Dragy is a really cool tool, I've had it for years, but just recently started playing with it and using it for data confirmation like this. Whats really nice is that the car pretty much runs the same out the back now no matter what so I can use it to test 1/8th mile or even 330' to get that data without having to make full quarter mile passes, just really easy to make a change, test, make a change, test, etc.

And you are right, it still had a terrible 60', if it goes as fast as it ever did with the MT then it will go 12.49 just with that gain which will likely lead to a faster time overall so I really think its got some 12.3x's in it as is. I don't think it's going to go 11s in the configuration it is in but the next step is putting the Karb box back on it and getting Hassan to tune it. *We pulled it off originally as when the car leaves on the transbrake it is around 2200rpm which would just cause a severe bog, but Hassan has the tune figured out to make these engines run with high load at low RPMs so we'll see what that gains us HP wise and 1/4 mile wise. And depending what happens with that we'll send a spare converter to CircleD and have them build us a custom high(er) stall unit.

[George Hill]

(I am in a process of making a kit for those who are interest in
manual transmission option for E46M3 owners)

DCT type gear boxes are nice and sure the shifting is faster
than manual-clutch type but one thing for sure those who
are after more fun Manual Gear box all day every day. More fun
to have at the track than 2 pedal, at least for me.

Regards
Anri

Anri,
I have not scaled the car since I've got the car to its current weight, but I bet its around 3150 without me in it. Maybe I should do that this week... My ZF8 setup is probably 130-140# heavier than a light flywheel ZF5 setup! I have a S6-53 6MT in it previously and that thing is heavy too, but still its maybe 20# or so lighter than the auto.

What kit are you developing? I sell an adapter to mate the ZF8 to the S54 and its really the only custom part in my configuration (aside from the trans cooler).

I'll be honest that I have an affection for manual transmissions, my other daily driver is an E53 X5 with a 5MT, but driving this car its just such a hoot. I don't think I would ever put a clutch pedal back in it at this point, with the paddle shifters its just a riot to drive on the street AND on the track.

[EthanolTurbo]

I don't want to divulge to far from the point of the thread, but mph is an indicator of hp so maybe its another data point for some. I just double checked my numbers as I thought the car trapped just as fast with the 6MT, but thats not the case:

This was our Hot Rod Drag Week setup, 6MT, Euro headers, Karb Plenum, Alpha-N tune and 3.15 gears! We thought the car was heat soaking towards the end of the week so after we were officially finished we pulled the hood (ran the whole week with it sealed) and knocked out a 12.89 @ 107.6, we tried to back it up, but I'm not a great driver, lol.




Then at Sick Week the setup was ZF8, Stock intake with Dinan CAI, MAF tune and 3.15 gears.




Then a couple weeks ago I decided to put some gear in the car, my paperwork said it had a 3.46LSD in it and I never verified. When I got it a part I found it had a 3.15 ratio, I swapped in 4.44s and it completely woke it up down low. From a stop it would not spin the 275 RS4s, now there is not hope to keep them hooked up so I'm working on the traction now.

3.15s:



4.44s:



So it looks like my memory was a bit off, it trapped 108.xx (I really thought it went faster at the track, but I can't find the slips to back it up, maybe we were doing the match and showed it had the opportunity) at the track and then we backed up the other numbers with the dragy which were 110.xx. There is a private track down coming up at Texas Motorplex that I might go to and see if we can break these 325 axle shafts lol.

Crazy that it had 3.15's and still did decently but yeah those 4.44's dropped almost half a second in the 1/4! I think the craziest part is it's running all these with a slow 60 ft (2.2-2.3). With a 1.6-1.7 60 ft it would be running low 12's. In theory with cams, weight reduction and a good launch this car could be running mid to low 11's all motor. Really makes me want to Draggy my car and see what it does with stock cams vs upgraded cams, bigger exhaust and headers and 3.91 gears.

[Anri]

Anri,
To be fair their dyno has been consistently the same for years, just higher than all the other DJs we've used.

And for the ZF8, if we say that their dyno is 14 +/- high that would put Eileen down 24 with the ZF8 . BUT what's interesting is she still runs 111mph +/- in the quarter mile

George,

The "Tamagotchi" 8 speed has advantages and disadvantages.

-Heavy
-Requires oil cooler
-Oil lines
-8 speed (2more gear friction)


It's a Win Lose scenario for sure but the scale is heavier on the
Win scenario

Properly geared set up can easy override the negatives!

Gearing is Magic, it can make under powered car or heavy car feel
light and fast..


You proved it with your quarter miles test. I don't know how
heavy your Wagon/Kombi is but it must be little heavier than std
E46M3 6spd box ? Say it is heavier, it does not matter from the
disadvantages the 8 speed has but the close-ratios box overrides
the negatives.

As far as I can see the diff is 4.44. That means that you made
the gears ratios more effective in the second part.

The RPM drop on closer ratios gear box will keep the engine
over all in higher HP window.


(I am in a process of making a kit for those who are interest in
manual transmission option for E46M3 owners)

DCT type gear boxes are nice and sure the shifting is faster
than manual-clutch type but one thing for sure those who
are after more fun Manual Gear box all day every day. More fun
to have at the track than 2 pedal, at least for me.

Regards
Anri