Alcantara wrapped black gloss DCT/SMG knob and general dct knob information

[liam821]

I've been hoarding parts for my new project and this beauty showed up in the mail. It's too good not to share. While I did the e60 M5 SMG knob in my old Interlagos e46m3 SMG, this knob below is actually out of an e92m3. I had an m3post forum member e90anthony (also @e90anthony on instagram if you want to get ahold of him) paint it gloss black and do a custom Alcantara boot mated to the standard e46 SMG ring so I can use the standard e46 SMG trim.

A few things I've learned:

Ignoring the wires, the knobs from the e60m5, e46m3 SMG, and e92m3 DCT are all interchangeable. You can modify the F10m5 leather boot to work with the e46 SMG ring pretty easily, but the e92m3 boot is completely different. So if you just want a leather boot e60m5/e92 style knob in your e46m3 SMG, stick to the e60m5 - It's way easier. There are some how-to's out there so when you turn on the lights the knob will illuminate.

I needed to use an e92m3 DCT knob because I'm swapping the whole e92m3 DCT transmission into my e46, including the whole drivelogic/gear selector. So I needed the e92m3 DCT knob's 10-pin plug which plugs into the drivelogic/gear selector.

Interestingly enough, the e92m3 drivelogic/gear selector bolts right to the e46 transmission tunnel using the same bolt pattern as the SMG gear selector which is the same as the non-m e46 auto gear selector. Makes my job easy!

If you want to check out some more of Anthony's work, click here: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1903328

Anyway, on to the pictures. Ignore my messy work-bench. Also, the SMG trim is just some old trim I had laying around. I'll get a new minty one for the new car.




For reference, my old Interlagos car which had an e60m5 SMG knob.


Here are some side-by-side e92m3 drivelogic/gear selector and the e46m3 SMG drivelogic/gear selector.

[oceansize]

Looks great. The DCT swap, man, which controller you going with? Will be interesting to see how it turns out.

[George Hill]

How are you planning to bolt the E92 M3 V8 DCT to a 6 cylinder?

[oceansize]

How are you planning to bolt the E92 M3 V8 DCT to a 6 cylinder?

I read write over the part of how it is an e92 dct swap and was thinking about F8x. Good question.

[liam821]

Looks great. The DCT swap, man, which controller you going with? Will be interesting to see how it turns out.

I'll be using a MaxxECU pro. I picked the Maxxecu because it can control the e92m3 dct TCU directly via can, so you don't have to swap out the mechatronics inside the DCT as you do with the HGT. It can also control the e46 modules, so things like the cruise control, a/c, mk60 abs, and gauge cluster continue to function. I've also heard mixed reviews on the HGT, some people love it, and some find tuning it a complete nightmare.

My other option was also using the Maxxecu but with a CanTCU controlling an f80 DCT. But honestly, the differences between the e92 and f80 DCTs are very few - other than the bell housings and gear ratios - they both shift about the same and have similar torque-holding capabilities. I keep up with the Maxxecu community forums and it seems they're very close to having support for the f80dct. Either way, I liked the gear ratios better on the e92 so I picked that one.

How are you planning to bolt the E92 M3 V8 DCT to a 6 cylinder?

Good eye. I won't be using the s54. Domi-Works does make an adapter from the M5X/S5X to the e92m3 DCT though. So if you wanted to keep the s54, a DomiWorks adapter, MaxxECU, e92m3 DCT, and a "Seems Legit" Garage e46 DCT trans mount will get you most of the way to a stock-like e46m3 with a DCT.

[S54B32]

Why you don‘t use E9x DCT? It‘s basically exact same transmission (internals etc). Even the e92 m3 GTS software should be flashable on this (need to be verified, but I’m pretty sure it does). Bellhousing is way more closer to S54 than the S65 DCT.

edit: never mind…didn‘t read at first that you don’t use s54. What engine you will use?

[George Hill]

I'll be using a MaxxECU pro. I picked the Maxxecu because it can control the e92m3 dct TCU directly via can, so you don't have to swap out the mechatronics inside the DCT as you do with the HGT. It can also control the e46 modules, so things like the cruise control, a/c, mk60 abs, and gauge cluster continue to function. I've also heard mixed reviews on the HGT, some people love it, and some find tuning it a complete nightmare.

My other option was also using the Maxxecu but with a CanTCU controlling an f80 DCT. But honestly, the differences between the e92 and f80 DCTs are very few - other than the bell housings and gear ratios - they both shift about the same and have similar torque-holding capabilities. I keep up with the Maxxecu community forums and it seems they're very close to having support for the f80dct. Either way, I liked the gear ratios better on the e92 so I picked that one.

In this situation Maxx is the only option IMO. I have been working with Kenneth to make logs of the DME/EGS data on MS43 cars and will for the S54/SMG cars soon too. Glad you aren't running an HTG, its trash IMO.

Good eye. I won't be using the s54. Domi-Works does make an adapter from the M5X/S5X to the e92m3 DCT though. So if you wanted to keep the s54, a DomiWorks adapter, MaxxECU, e92m3 DCT, and a "Seems Legit" Garage e46 DCT trans mount will get you most of the way to a stock-like e46m3 with a DCT.

I also make an adapter that is much simpler than the DW kit for mounting a 6 cylinder based DCT to the M/S5x engines, I just hadn't heard of anyone using a V8 bell housing DCT behind an I6 engine.

EDIT: Also interested to hear what powerplant you are swapping.

[liam821]

In this situation Maxx is the only option IMO. I have been working with Kenneth to make logs of the DME/EGS data on MS43 cars and will for the S54/SMG cars soon too. Glad you aren't running an HTG, its trash IMO.



I also make an adapter that is much simpler than the DW kit for mounting a 6 cylinder based DCT to the M/S5x engines, I just hadn't heard of anyone using a V8 bell housing DCT behind an I6 engine.

EDIT: Also interested to hear what powerplant you are swapping.

Very interesting. Are you hoping to get the Maxx to be able to control the MS43 auto and later S54/SMG? Controlling the SMG would be huge.

I'm sure somebody has used the V8 bell housing on the M/S5x engines since DomiWorks makes an adapter, but it seems you'd save a bunch of headaches and money just starting with the dct from the 335i.

As for the engine, I'm gonna go back to my Honda roots. I'll be using a Honda k24 turbo. Since I've had such great success with my BorgWarner EFR on my time attack car I'll be using another one. And why the honda? It's half the weight of the s54, they're literally $800, have massive aftermarket support, and the power potential is huge. I'm hoping to get the car to ~3000 pounds and in the ~5hp per pound range!

I'm planning on buying two motors, one will go in the car in stock form while I work out bugs and build the 2nd to handle more power. The biggest hurdle with the k24 is the oil pump. It's literally right where the steering rack in the e46 is. I'm 90% sure I'm going to end up with a dry-sump. Solves all my problems from the oil pump being at the front of the motor and clearance issues.

I'll start a build thread here soon. I haven't had a lot of time to work on it so I've just been collecting parts and planning. If you have any insight or suggestions I'm all ears!

[George Hill]

Very interesting. Are you hoping to get the Maxx to be able to control the MS43 auto and later S54/SMG? Controlling the SMG would be huge.

No, that would be using Kenneth's CANTCU. I'll likely be running a Maxx on my turbo M52 (see below), but that option doesn't work for people who need a stock DME for racing classes or emissions testing.

I'm sure somebody has used the V8 bell housing on the M/S5x engines since DomiWorks makes an adapter, but it seems you'd save a bunch of headaches and money just starting with the dct from the 335i.

The 6 cylinder DCT, basically bolts up to the M/S5x blocks, then use a stock DCT flywheel from an early N54 (Euro only option) and then my starter adapter to mount the starter to the trans and boom such a simple setup. This also works on the 8HP, GS6-53 and 6HP transmissions (8HP45 is what is in my S54 wagon)

As for the engine, I'm gonna go back to my Honda roots. I'll be using a Honda k24 turbo. Since I've had such great success with my BorgWarner EFR on my time attack car I'll be using another one. And why the honda? It's half the weight of the s54, they're literally $800, have massive aftermarket support, and the power potential is huge. I'm hoping to get the car to ~3000 pounds and in the ~5hp per pound range!

I'm planning on buying two motors, one will go in the car in stock form while I work out bugs and build the 2nd to handle more power. The biggest hurdle with the k24 is the oil pump. It's literally right where the steering rack in the e46 is. I'm 90% sure I'm going to end up with a dry-sump. Solves all my problems from the oil pump being at the front of the motor and clearance issues.

I'll start a build thread here soon. I haven't had a lot of time to work on it so I've just been collecting parts and planning. If you have any insight or suggestions I'm all ears!

K24 swaps are picking up steam for sure, I have a client with an M3 that keeps threatening that swap too. I'm doing kind of the opposite, swapping a turbo M52 into my Mustang. It was originally supposed to be DCT, but will likely go 8HP. So why not the M52 option? The K24 wins on weight (based off your numbers), but otherwise M52s are cheap, bolt into an E46 chassis and can make tons of power, easily 6:1 ratio (as you mentioned with the K24). You can also run it on an MS43 computer which would allow all of the factory BMW electronics to work (non-m E46 01-03 cars). MS43 is not as flexible as a Maxx, but still has lots of capability for a relatively tame setup.

[liam821]

No, that would be using Kenneth's CANTCU. I'll likely be running a Maxx on my turbo M52 (see below), but that option doesn't work for people who need a stock DME for racing classes or emissions testing.

Ohh gotcha. Looks like the CanTCU is a very good option. Very cool that he is trying to add SMG support.

The 6 cylinder DCT, basically bolts up to the M/S5x blocks, then use a stock DCT flywheel from an early N54 (Euro only option) and then my starter adapter to mount the starter to the trans and boom such a simple setup. This also works on the 8HP, GS6-53 and 6HP transmissions (8HP45 is what is in my S54 wagon)

The easy button! So simple. Other than having to deal with the dct TCU, I'm surprised not more people run it.

K24 swaps are picking up steam for sure, I have a client with an M3 that keeps threatening that swap too. I'm doing kind of the opposite, swapping a turbo M52 into my Mustang. It was originally supposed to be DCT, but will likely go 8HP. So why not the M52 option? The K24 wins on weight (based off your numbers), but otherwise M52s are cheap, bolt into an E46 chassis and can make tons of power, easily 6:1 ratio (as you mentioned with the K24). You can also run it on an MS43 computer which would allow all of the factory BMW electronics to work (non-m E46 01-03 cars). MS43 is not as flexible as a Maxx, but still has lots of capability for a relatively tame setup.

You know, the m5x was my 2nd choice. The two big reasons I went K were I like a high rpm and wanted something different. We'll see how it plays out.

I was very close to the 8HP as well and even have an 8HP75 in the garage, but I'm going to save that for another project some other day.

[George Hill]

Ohh gotcha. Looks like the CanTCU is a very good option. Very cool that he is trying to add SMG support.

Sorry, I didn't explain well. Not that he is supporting SMG, but the idea is if he can emulate the communication from the DME to SMG then he can in theory adapt that to the CANTCU for the DCT/8HP operation. I have a TurboLamik TCU in my car and the biggest issue with it is that I think the DME needs to know whats going on behind it and the TL doesn't support that now. BUT for a "race car" which is kind where my car is the TL works well. For a street car that needs to work like a factory car then keeping the Mechatronics in place is ideal. I'm curious to see how yours gets along with the stock mechatronics. And by that I mean you will be subjecting it to power and RPM that it wasn't "designed" for and what the Mechatronics will make of it.

The easy button! So simple. Other than having to deal with the dct TCU, I'm surprised not more people run it.

Because HTG destroyed the DCT reputation with their terrible software implementation. I would wager that the majority of the "famous" DCT swapped cars 2 yrs ago all no longer have DCTs.

You know, the m5x was my 2nd choice. The two big reasons I went K were I like a high rpm and wanted something different. We'll see how it plays out.

I was very close to the 8HP as well and even have an 8HP75 in the garage, but I'm going to save that for another project some other day.

How high are you planning to turn it? 8K plus is not outlandish with M5x engines now. I'm doing something similar in putting together a "budget" engine to get the car going and sort out the details and then likely go a bit more with a sturdier engine, I hope to spin mine 8k at least.

The jury is still out on how the 8HP will handle RPM. I haven't seen any real documentation from ZF itself that says what the RPM limit is, but all the auto manufacturers data point to 7k being the max (but that could be just because that is what their engines do). I spin mine 8300 now, but much more than that and I would likely be looking towards the DCT so looking at how your project gets along.

[liam821]

Sorry, I didn't explain well. Not that he is supporting SMG, but the idea is if he can emulate the communication from the DME to SMG then he can in theory adapt that to the CANTCU for the DCT/8HP operation. I have a TurboLamik TCU in my car and the biggest issue with it is that I think the DME needs to know whats going on behind it and the TL doesn't support that now. BUT for a "race car" which is kind where my car is the TL works well. For a street car that needs to work like a factory car then keeping the Mechatronics in place is ideal. I'm curious to see how yours gets along with the stock mechatronics. And by that I mean you will be subjecting it to power and RPM that it wasn't "designed" for and what the Mechatronics will make of it.

Ohh, okay that makes complete sense. Smart to emulate the SMG like that, should be interesting to see how that plays out.

There are a few street s2000s with DCTs and the driveability looks to be excellent with the stock mechatronics. Maxxecu recommends using the GTS firmware and driveability out of the box once you have all the torque and throttle blip settings dialed is decent. I did chat with a guy that can modify the GTS firmware, he said the bmw shift points [in auto mode] are way to quick, they want you to be in 7th gear as fast as possible then it never wants to downshift out of 7th gear, so you end up having to switch to manual mode or lug around until you floor it and it kicks all the way down.

I guess we'll see how it goes. This isn't going to be a race car, so driveability is important.

Because HTG destroyed the DCT reputation with their terrible software implementation. I would wager that the majority of the "famous" DCT swapped cars 2 yrs ago all no longer have DCTs.

Agreed. Phil from Driftworks is currently making a video series about removing the dct because it was such a nightmare. The only silver lining from the whole ordeal is DCT transmissions are, for the most part, still pretty affordable.

How high are you planning to turn it? 8K plus is not outlandish with M5x engines now. I'm doing something similar in putting together a "budget" engine to get the car going and sort out the details and then likely go a bit more with a sturdier engine, I hope to spin mine 8k at least.

The jury is still out on how the 8HP will handle RPM. I haven't seen any real documentation from ZF itself that says what the RPM limit is, but all the auto manufacturers data point to 7k being the max (but that could be just because that is what their engines do). I spin mine 8300 now, but much more than that and I would likely be looking towards the DCT so looking at how your project gets along.

I doubt I'll rev it past 8500, so pretty similar to the s65 that was originally bolted to the transmission.

Yeah, even the new g80 m3 has a 7200rpm rev limiter. Christoph Wallnoefer (xHP flashtool guy) says the 8hp70 has a max rpm of 8600 because of the oil pump. But I've 'heard" from the internet anywhere from 7600 to 8600... I'd imagine there has to be a bit of safety built in, but I also haven't found any documentation from ZF that said one way or another.

I'll for sure keep you posted.