Vanos Rebuild Start Hesitation

[sapote]

"Did just have another thought though, I don't suppose it could be EVAP related seeing as basically everyone I take it to said it sounds like fuel? I've seen the DMTL pump mentioned in some threads but as far as I know my car doesn't have this, just the activated charcoal filter. There is the fuel tank breather valve though that connects to the same pipes as the ICV..."
I doubt these issues can lead to fuel system status 8 during high rpm as you have.

[jamesfoley]

Can't get any air past the fuel tank breather, so assuming its normally closed until engine is up to temp it must be fine. Unless of course its intermittently sticky where sometimes its stuck open, but that might be a bit of a long shot.

I doubt these issues can lead to fuel system status 8 during high rpm as you have.

I agree that it might be unrelated, but the fuel system status and O2 sensors read like its misfiring, and EVAP issues can cause hard starts and misfires so figured it was worth checking. Logs also have the fuel system status of 8 at 1600 rpm so not just high rpm

Edit: Looking back at older logs I can see fuel system status 8 at 850 rpm, so I guess it's just happening all the time

Starting to wonder if I'm trying too hard to blame something complicated. Wonder if it's just a bad spark plug, or perhaps head gasket which I've been trying to avoid blaming.

Edit 2:

Just incase this is of any use, I took the car out on my usual test route with GT1/DIS hooked up for the misfire counter, got 0 on all cylinders 🤷♂️

Here is all the data from the DIS Diagnostics screen after the drive, might be useful for someone:

Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (MISFIRES)

Misfire counter: ACTIVE

Current
Cyl. driving cycle:
1: 0
2: 0
3: 0
4: 0
5: 0
6: 0

Note:
Current driving cycle: number of detected misfires since engine start


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (THROTTLE POSITION)

Potentiometer, throttle position: 0%
Potentiometer, servomotor position: 0%
Voltage, potentiometer, at throttle: 0.35 V
Voltage, potentiometer, at servomotor: 4.37 V

EDK actuator, duty factor: 8.1 %

Control factor, charge controller: 0.996
EDK specification by DME: 0%


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (EDK ADAPTATION)

Adaptations:

Rise, pot. at throttle: 28.7 %/V
Rise, pot. at servomotor: 27.6 %/V

Throttle, leakage air: 2.6 kg/h

Pot. at throttle, zero stop: 0.34 V
Pot. at servomotor, zero stop 4.20 V

Maximum deviation between specified and actual
values of throttle position: 2.8 %

Counter, increased EDK duty factor: 0

Counter, controller activation: 17
Counter, controller deactivation: 2


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (SENSOR-GEAR ADAPTATION)

Adaptation, sensor gear, crankshaft:
1: 0 °/oo
2: -0.18 °/oo
3: -1.29 °/oo
4: -0.30 °/oo
5: 0.27 °/oo
6: -1.08 °/oo

Counter,adapt 'n,sensorgear,crankshaft: 65535


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (ROADSPEED)

Road speed: 0 km/h
Vehicle speed via CAN: 0 km/h
Cruise control: NOT ACTUATED

Engine speed: 887 rpm
Engine load: 22%
Power supply: 13.7 V
Ambient pressure (sensor in CM): 1013 mbar
Air mass: 22.25 kg/h
Relative opening cross-section from throttle and idle opening: 0.225 %
Duty factor, tank-venting valve: 12.7 %


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (BASIC QUANTITIES)

Duty factor, electric fan: 65 %
Clocking, electric fuel pump: 8.329 ms
Oil level: 104 mm
Tank fill level: 23 1


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (HFS)

Voltage value, air-mass flow sensor: 1.14 V
Air mass: 22.25 kg/h


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (AIR CONDITIONING)

Enable signal for A/C compressor: ON

A/C-compressor request: ON

Switch, air conditioning: ON

Air-conditioning system: INSTALLED


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (KNOCK ADAPTATION)

Knock adaptation, cylinder 1: -2.03 °cr
Knock adaptation, cylinder 2: -1.65 °cr
Knock adaptation, cylinder 3: -0.59 °cr
Knock adaptation, cylinder 4: 0.58 °cr
Knock adaptation, cylinder 5: -1.37 °cr
Knock adaptation, cylinder 6: -1.29 °cr


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (OXYGEN-SENSOR CONTROL)

Oxygen-sensor controller, cyl.1-3,
control factor: 1.005
Oxygen-sensor controller, cyl.4-6,
control factor: 0.992

Oxygen-sensor control
cyl. 1-3: ACTIVE
Oxygen-sensor control
cyl. 4-6: ACTIVE

Additive mixture adaptation
(idle) cyl. 1-3: -0.068 ms
Additive mixture adaptation
(idle) cyl. 4-6: -0.112 ms
Multiplicative mixture adaptation (part load)
cyl.1-3 -2.04 %
Multiplicative mixture adaptation (part load)
cyl. 4-6 -3.26 %

Note:
Values lower than 0% mean mixture leaning
Values higher then 0% mean mixture enrichment

Tank-ventilation adaptation, cyl. 1-3: 0.96
Tank-ventilation adaptation, cyl. 4-6: 0.97
Weighting factor, diagnosis
Fuel system, cyl.1-3: 1.00
Fuel system, cyl.4-6: 1.01


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS:REQUESTS (IDLE SPEED CONTROL

Specified idle speed: 870 rpm

Idle controller: ACTIVE

Idle-speed control valve, duty factor: 36.18 %

Idle controller: -6.4 Nm

Adaptation, idle controller: 12.3 Nm

Adaptation, idle controller (A/C on): 3.6 Nm


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (OXYGEN SENSOR HEATER)

Shunt voltage, oxygen-sensor heater, before
cat., cyl. 1-3: 3.559 V
Shunt voltage, oxygen-sensor heater before
cat., cyl. 4-6: 3.569 V
Shunt voltage, oxygen-sensor heater after
cat. cyl.1-3: 3.676 V
Shunt voltage, oxygen-sensor heater after
cat., cyl.4-6: 3.676 V

Oxygen-sensor voltage before cat.,
cyl.1-3: 0.127 V
Oxygen-sensor voltage before cat.,
cyl.4-6: 0.695 V
Oxygen-sensor voltage after cat.,
cyl.1-3: 0.718 V
Oxvaen-sensor voltage after cat.,
cyl.4-6: 0.752 V


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (PEDAL-TRAVEL SENSOR)

Pedal-travel sensor, potentiometer 1:
Pedal-travel sensor, potentiometer 2:

Adaptation, pedal-travel sensor 1
zero position: 684 mV
Adaptation, pedal-travel sensor 2
zero position: 344 mV

Voltage, pedal-travel sensor 1: 693 mV
Voltage, pedal-travel sensor 2: 351 mV


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (STATUS)

Engine operating state: IDLE
Inertia fuel shutoff: NOT ACTIVE
Ignition-lock position 2: ON
Ignition-lock position 3: OFF
Brake-light switch: OFF
Detection, adhesion
(gear engaged, clutch not actuated): NO

Fuel pump: ON
Secondary-air pump: OFF
Secondary-air valve: OFF

DME enabling by EWS follows: YES
Air-conditioning system: INSTALLED


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (TEMPERATURE SENSOR)

Engine oil temperature: 91 °C

Outside temperature: 26 °c
E46: via CAN from instrument cluster
E36/7: from secondary control unit

Exhaust temperature: 192 °C
Intake-air temperature: 50 °C
Coolant temperature, engine outlet: 91 °C
Coolant temperature, radiator outlet: 76 °C

Voltage, temperature sensor, intake air: 2. 28 mV
Voltage, temperature sensor, engine outlet: 0.86 V
Voltage, temperature sensor, radiator outlet: 1.23 mV

Max. DME temperature: 63 °C


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (VANOS)

Inlet VANOS, actual value: 59.1 °cr
Inlet VANOS, pilot control by DME: 60 °cr
Inlet VANOS, adaptation: -4.4 °cr
Inlet VANOS, status, adaptation: ADAPTED

Exhaust VANOS, actual value: 1.6 °cr
Exhaust VANS, pilot control by DME: 2 °cr
Exhaust VANOS, adaptation: 4.2 °cr
ExhaustVANOS, status, adaptation: ADAPTED


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (SMOOTH RUNNING)

Cyl. Smooth running
(raw data)
1: -637 us
2: 835 us
3: 516 us
4: -353 us
5: 248 us
6: -133 us


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (INJECTION)

Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (INJECTION)

No. of deactivated cyls: 0
No. of deactivated cyls. DME spec.: 0

Cyl. duration of injection
1: 2.161 ms
2: 2.038 ms
3: 2.354 ms
4: 2.081 ms
5: 1.976 ms
6: 2.098 ms


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (IGNITION)

Cyl. ignition angle
1: 21.5 °cr
2: 21.5 °cr
3: 21.5 °cr
4: 21.5 °cr
5: 21.5 °cr
6: 21.5 °cr


Diagnosis DIAGNOSIS REQUESTS (ADAPTATION IDLE SYNCH.)

Adaptation
Idle
Cyl. synchronisation

1: -20 µs
2: -128 µs
3: 150 µs
4: 26 µs
5: -66 µs
6: 41 µs
​

[sapote]

“Edit: Looking back at older logs I can see fuel system status 8 at 850 rpm, so I guess it's just happening all the time”

what had been done to cause it no longer shows up at idle now?

[jamesfoley]

what had been done to cause it no longer shows up at idle now?

Not sure anything has changed, looking through all of my logs I get fuel status 8's at all sorts of RPM, its never been just high RPM. Just seems to be when coming off throttle, so even little throttle inputs cause it.

[sapote]

Not sure anything has changed, looking through all of my logs I get fuel status 8's at all sorts of RPM, its never been just high RPM. Just seems to be when coming off throttle, so even little throttle inputs cause it.

So not during idling?

[jamesfoley]

So not during idling?

Correct, it’s never happened just leaving the car to idle. It also doesn’t seem to happen when the car is cruising at a fixed RPM. Only when there is a change in RPM.

[jamesfoley]

I don't suppose anyone has the translations for the results of the Tool32 STATUS_DIGITAL job?

I have a rolling log with some suspect graphs, but I'm not sure what the datapoints translate to. STAT_SA_EIN for example. https://datazap.me/u/jamesfoley/e46-...?log=0&data=42

[Tomba]

comment : Status Schubabschaltung

mean fuel cut during deceleration (throttle pedal 0%).





Can you read,
STATUS_ADAPTIONSBLOCK_06
STATUS_ADAPTIONSBLOCK_16
STATUS_ADAPTIONSBLOCK_26 and
STATUS_ADAPTIONSBLOCK_83

and post results in a text file by copy-ing the results from the results screen?

[jamesfoley]

Tomba Should be attached. Looks like this is the data that DIS uses for its status pages...

[sapote]

For normal engine, it should be status 4 and not 8:

1 Open loop due to insufficient engine temperature (Engine temperature is not used much these days to determine Closed Loop status, usually O2 sensor activity is used to determine when to switch to Closes Loop status)
2 Closed loop, using oxygen sensor feedback to determine fuel mix
4 Open loop due to engine load OR fuel cut due to deceleration
8 Open loop due to system failure
16 Closed loop, using at least one oxygen sensor but there is a fault in the feedback system

[jamesfoley]

For normal engine, it should be status 4 and not 8:

1 Open loop due to insufficient engine temperature (Engine temperature is not used much these days to determine Closed Loop status, usually O2 sensor activity is used to determine when to switch to Closes Loop status)
2 Closed loop, using oxygen sensor feedback to determine fuel mix
4 Open loop due to engine load OR fuel cut due to deceleration
8 Open loop due to system failure
16 Closed loop, using at least one oxygen sensor but there is a fault in the feedback system

The STATUS_DIGITAL data only displays fuel cut as 1 for cut, 0 for no cut. The graph makes it look weird as it does some smoothing to show half values.

I'm not 100% sure how I'd get both the fuel status and the fuel cut data logging together though.

STAT_KL50_EIN is another odd looking one. Tool32 says this is Status Anlasser which is Starter state, not sure if this related to speed or something.

[Tomba]

Can't find anything unusual yet in the results shared.
Are we now tracking 2 problems 1. hard start and 2 fuel status 8? Or do these seem to be linked?

Like sapote, I would rather back up your DME data and check it. Eventually also flash it with latest software.

[jamesfoley]

Can't find anything unusual yet in the results shared.
Are we now tracking 2 problems 1. hard start and 2 fuel status 8? Or do these seem to be linked?

Like sapote, I would rather back up your DME data and check it. Eventually also flash it with latest software.

Yea thats correct.

1. Intermittent hard start regardless of how long the car has been sitting or engine temperature.
2. Fuel system status 8 appearing randomly when driving, though doesn't seem to affect performance. O2 sensors appear to drop to 0v when this occurs suggesting unburnt mixture?

The fuel status issue was discovered when capturing logs to figure out what might be causing the hard starts. Currently no evidence to suggest that they are related however.

Writing to the DME myself scares me a little, however if there was a way to safely dump the map from the DME to compare it with a known good map I could maybe try that.

The DME flash counter is still at 30 which suggest it has never been touched since 2001? That's the only thing that feels kinda weird.

[Tomba]

The DME flash counter is still at 30 which suggest it has never been touched since 2001? That's the only thing that feels kinda weird.

Could be, if you read [aif_lesen] in Tool32, we could see which S/W is in and check which one is available.

[jamesfoley]

Could be, if you read [aif_lesen] in Tool32, we could see which S/W is in and check which one is available.

I have these from DIS and the ECUWorx DME Utility to hand if they're of any use?

Software Ver: 211322001301-J424
Flashes remaining: 30

Programmed control module: 7833144
Basic control module: 7833145
Hardware number: 1B
Software number: 13
Diagnosis index: 30

Coding index: 00
Bus index: 60
Modification index: 01

Date: 03.11. 1
Supplier: SIEMENS


If not I'll pop out later and run the Tool32 job