Saving a S54 From Parting Out.

[Anri]

digger,

You mentioned few days ago Competition Valve seat work.

I am working on this S38 head and had a local very famous
Machine shop working only Honda Hi performance cylinder
heads...also S54 !!! and also on new Supras....

The guy purchased Newen CNC machine for cutting only valve
seats. I have to admit I sow the process and it gets the job done
so fast! What this Newen machine did for about 5 hours it was going
to take me a week of work..and thus why I decided to save time
also from cost stand point I wanted to save money to my customer.
So the idea is to bring the valve to throat in 90-91%. The original
is in 89%

Ones the head was completed I shipped to my shop and few
weeks later now its the time complete the rest like cutting the
valves etc...


I decided to check the Concentricity as I always do if I use any
services which I am not involved. Naive me I had zero doubts...this
is done on CNC....
Man when I checked the concentricity I could not believe my
eyes..on all 24 seats I was between 6-8-thousand inch off.........

I am very disappointed from Newen machine.

From now on Competition seat work will be done In-House
by me, it will take me up tp 2 weeks to do it but it will be done properly!


Link

Newen https://www.instagram.com/p/CvuktvjAPkt/

Corrected by me here https://www.instagram.com/p/Cvum59hAfV3/

[digger]

digger,

You mentioned few days ago Competition Valve seat work.

I am working on this S38 head and had a local very famous
Machine shop working only Honda Hi performance cylinder
heads...also S54 !!! and also on new Supras....

The guy purchased Newen CNC machine for cutting only valve
seats. I have to admit I sow the process and it gets the job done
so fast! What this Newen machine did for about 5 hours it was going
to take me a week of work..and thus why I decided to save time
also from cost stand point I wanted to save money to my customer.
So the idea is to bring the valve to throat in 90-91%. The original
is in 89%

Ones the head was completed I shipped to my shop and few
weeks later now its the time complete the rest like cutting the
valves etc...

I decided to check the Concentricity as I always do if I use any
services which I am not involved. Naive me I had zero doubts...this
is done on CNC....
Man when I checked the concentricity I could not believe my
eyes..on all 24 seats I was between 6-8-thousand inch off.........

I am very disappointed from Newen machine.

From now on Competition seat work will be done In-House
by me, it will take me up tp 2 weeks to do it but it will be done properly!

Link

Newen https://www.instagram.com/p/CvuktvjAPkt/

Corrected by me here https://www.instagram.com/p/Cvum59hAfV3/

I am not sure i did mention anything recently?
In any case they obviously screwed it up. it wont be the norm to be that far out so i wouldn't blame the machine.
Did you call them and tell them?

[Anri]

I am not sure i did mention anything recently?
In any case they obviously screwed it up. it wont be the norm to be that far out so i wouldn't blame the machine.
Did you call them and tell them?

Digger,

When I left those heads I mentioend I want to see
under .1 thou run out while I was after to pass
90%+. Then right before I hopped in my daily driver E28M5
I said please don't forget. A month later I started to work
on the heads and seats are 8 thou off I called him up and he
never picked up the phone he knows why I am calling back..

Remember he is not cutting it by hand it's automated.
Like I mentioned I see the problem with the Newen set up.

I use the multi angle blade in one and I get to chose the specs
I want. I also have my own technic..today I just finished 1 head
which it took me 3 days...its slow but death accurate!

Regards,
Anri

[digger]

Digger,

When I left those heads I mentioend I want to see
under .1 thou run out while I was demanding to pass
90%+. Then right before I hopped in my daily driver E28M5
I said please don't forget. A month later I started to work
on the heads and seats are 8 thou off I called him up and he
never picked up the phone he knows why I am calling back..

Remember he is not cutting it by hand it's automated.
Like I mentioned I see the problem with the Newen set up.

I use the multi angle blade in one and I get to chose the specs
I want. I also have my own technic..today I just finished 1 head
which it took me 3 days...its slow but death accurate!

Regards,
Anri

""

The following are based on my understanding of the Newen. the valve guide size changes depending on the head being worked. the operator needs to choose the correct "pilot" so you cant rely on muppets to operate and expect good outcome so not really automatic. i do think there are some fundamental flaws in the machine spinning pilot in the guide i dont like, but i could do better than 8 thou with a Neway hand cutter lol so they wouldn't be still selling machines of 6 to 8 though was the norm

[Anri]

Digger,

I found a quick short video. As we can see the design even with the right pilot
how it works can allow some variations vs the traditional pilot which is rock solid
ones installed in the valve guide deep and it locks. The head unit I am
using goes very tight over the pilot !!! It's a bit of a process. The multi angles
build in single cutter is made from very hard material, it is very important to get the
cutting speed right because otherwise chattering occurs.

To get perfect concentricity the cutting blade while its making the pass can't not
leave the surface during cut via "corkscrew" motion.

Concentiry is extremity important for the valve to sit properly and not lean on
the guide inside...7-8 thou is a lot. Also banging the valve seat with more
pressure from one side more than other for sure contributes for either drop
seat or drop valve head.

Anyway I am not looking back...


Regards,
Anri

https://youtube.com/shorts/xtI6HSNDItk?feature=share

[Anri]

Digger,

This is exact what talking about. My phone camera is full and I can't make
videos more than 2min or less otherwise I would have made same video
to show the process..I need go-pro type and then I can show the process
which identical as the one seen in the video.

These are LS AFR 300, please zoom in and you can see they are CNCd and
also pay attention to how the seat is cut! Its done with Newen type of a
machine which one can recognize by the pass (at least I can).

Look at run out is same around ~8-9 thou absolute disaster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3jn2ER455Y

The machinist brought the concentricity to about 2 thou, I bring them from 1
thou down to zero. I do use exact the same machine. I personally spent far
more time than his did to bring things to sloe to 0.

Regards,
Anri.

[sapote]

Look at run out is same around ~8-9 thou absolute disaster..

I don't think the NEWEN CNC machine to be blamed, but who set the valve guide as the center with 8 thou off center error

[oceansize]

I don't care if its the machine or the operator. Where is the QA? This is exactly why machine shops and engine rebuilders get a bad name, most want to tell you how their all first rate builders but Anri up in here straight walking the walk.

[Anri]

I don't think the NEWEN CNC machine to be blamed, but who set the valve guide as the center with 8 thou off center error

Sapote,

The guide has nothing to do you need to understand how it works and it
will be easier for you see it.(I can tell you got the comment from the guy in the
video and that gave you some food to chew) Again, trust me it has nothing
to do, I wish you are next to me when I am on top of machine so I can explain to
you and show you and then most important is I can demonstrate to you by going
Reverse-Machining...so you can see it with your own eyes how bad it will
go...Remember I made the correction on the same guide....



I looked earlier today at Serdi CNC valve seat machine and they talk about improving
the Concentricity ! Improving concentricity in 2023 ?... I made a video for us here
to share the data and the result personally I can do with the manual machine..Sapote
the machine I use is also Newen...lol

Regards,
Anri.

[Anri]

I don't care if its the machine or the operator. Where is the QA? This is exactly why machine shops and engine rebuilders get a bad name, most want to tell you how their all first rate builders but Anri up in here straight walking the walk.

Oceansize,

Thank you for the kind words. I have noting to hide. Every Engine I build for
a customer comes with massive pictures and notes. To further up the quality
build I am in a process to make mounting hardware so I can put the engine
to do break-in procedure before being installed in the car, or I have option
for Engine Dyno as well.

Regards,
Anri.

[George Hill]

Anri Thanks for posting his channel, some good info in there even if it isn't specifically BMW. I watched his 3x videos about concentricity and started watching his series about building the BBC, lots of food for thought that can be applied to any engine.

[Anri]

Anri Thanks for posting his channel, some good info in there even if it isn't specifically BMW. I watched his 3x videos about concentricity and started watching his series about building the BBC, lots of food for thought that can be applied to any engine.

Hill,

I don't know the guy at all it was just quick sample to demonstrate another
CNC-Newen type of a work. Nothing new to me in this machining world
any more...

I personally have done 50+ S54 cylinder heads, not counting the S38
S14, S65 etc.. I personally install guides, I personally hone them, I personally
cut the seat with 0-1" thou Concentricity. My standard is max 1' thou.

On the Serdi web site I watched their video of presentation on one of their
valve seat machine. In few days I will post and provide data in comparison
I have in mind.


Regards,
Anri.

[George Hill]

Anri, What machine are you using?

[Anri]

Anri, What machine are you using?

Hill,

I will sent you PM.


I forgot to mention very important point, the concentricity must be taken from
the 45 degree angle not the top/last as I think the guy in the video I linked
took.

Regards,
Anri

[Anri]

Gents,

Too many engine projects are on the pipe line and had to concentrate
to get this project going on the road asap.

Engine is completed up and smooth running

After the initial start I have my own cup of tea procedure how to
break-in the motor and after 10mins engine was off.

All 6 spark plug out and checked the leak down and I am at "0"
also checking the lash quickly.

Well 0 does not exist !!!!!! but I am getting 1% leak down which
is absolute like how E46M3 rolled out from the assembly line back
in 2000 from Munich.

I have attached short videos on all 6 cylinders to share with you guys.

Again, this is for only 10min of engine break-in. Let the engine sees
1000 road miles and it will improve around 0.2-0.3% so I will end up
with around 0.5% leak down.

I do make sure before the engine goes back to the customer/road
I have great holding cylinder and head pressure. Its not nice the
Customer to check the leak down on its own and check the work
of the engine builder like what happened recently with our member.

Every engine I put together comes with 2 Years Unlimited miles Warranty.

Regards,
Anri

https://studio.youtube.com/video/naB9iUgZT6U/edit

https://studio.youtube.com/video/dCmeogkzfPU/edit

https://studio.youtube.com/video/6v90UiYhEWQ/edit

https://studio.youtube.com/video/ghDT-KRuvUw/edit

https://studio.youtube.com/video/AjLUGc3Y6ME/edit

https://studio.youtube.com/video/sE9OWKMVpsQ/edit