THE M3 IS GETTING THE ANRI BUILD TREATMENT - Blown headgasket to build thread

[cobra]

It is common practice to use silicone at head seams (vanos) and half moon corners since the gasket doesn't always conform perfectly.

At the water pump, sensors, tubes, etc. it has no place.

[Anri]

It is common practice to use silicone at head seams (vanos) and half moon corners since the gasket doesn't always conform perfectly.

At the water pump, sensors, tubes, etc. it has no place.

Sure but does it mean there isn't better solution ? Solution that will
not get into the valve cover when the silicone is pushed inside and
cuts off and floats in the oil...and next time you do rod bearings
you find small tear drop size silicone in your oil pump screen
yummy...seen it all the time and the reason I never use silicone.

Nothing better than compound, well I guess we all have different
methods.

Regards
Anri

[George Hill]

I am wandering why people still use silicone around the engine ?

What do you suggest?

At the dealership we always used Hylomar, but IDK if they have changed the formula or something but lately it seems to not last as long as it did and starts allowing seepage.

Ultra gray has been my go to and it doesn't leak at all, but the clean up is terrible. *And yes a little goes a long ways, lots of people waaaaay over use it.

[cobra]

Sure but does it mean there isn't better solution ? Solution that will
not get into the valve cover when the silicone is pushed inside and
cuts off and floats in the oil...and next time you do rod bearings
you find small tear drop size silicone in your oil pump screen
yummy...seen it all the time and the reason I never use silicone.

Nothing better than compound, well I guess we all have different
methods.

Regards
Anri

The key is to not use too much. If you have big globs of sealant breaking off inside the engine you have used way too much.

Almost all manufacturers use it to seal engines and transmissions these days. It is not uncommon to find all sorts of silicone chunks and metal shavings during a first oil change.

[slavik1988]

M539s latest episode (Project Marseille ep.8) has a good visual/explanation on addressing the silicone gaskets. Leaving a bead vs. using a brush.

[cobra]

M539s latest episode (Project Marseille ep.8) has a good visual/explanation on addressing the silicone gaskets. Leaving a bead vs. using a brush.

Without watching the video, I can see pros/cons to each method.

A bead will not have any air pockets because it will evenly squeeze from the middle out as it is compressed. It's harder to judge quantity and put way too much. It's also critical that the uncoated side is perfectly clean and the parts are assembled quickly so there's not a skinned over surface that doesn't bond to one side. This is how they do it in production manufacturing because they can control all these variables accurately.

Spreading the gasket material on both sides lets you more accurately put the right amount and ensure good coverage, but also can skin over more quickly and can create air pockets.

Personally I've always used the 'dab' method to create lots of peaks and ensure the gasket material is adequately adhered to both sides. It has seemed to work pretty well so far. Equally as important as the method is the stuff you're using. I like using slow cure (1 hour+ of work time) so that I don't need to worry about skinning over and can carefully take my time installing.

[Anri]

The key is to not use too much. If you have big globs of sealant breaking off inside the engine you have used way too much.

Almost all manufacturers use it to seal engines and transmissions these days. It is not uncommon to find all sorts of silicone chunks and metal shavings during a first oil change.

Cobra,

I was obsessed with finding sealing solutions. I
have tried everything on the market related to sealant.
No matter how careful you will put the RTV silicone it always
without exception is going inside. If you put too little oil
will find its way out.

Remember factory uses robot to apply the silicone so
no matter how good your hand is you will never match.
Also they don't have time means on production line everything
is fast fast fast...and why gaskets are skipped because it take
time and money.

On the older engines I use 4 different compounds in various
areas around the engine.

On S54 engine I use 2 different compounds.

Never liked RTV but that just me.

Regards,
Anri.

[Anri]

Moving to the Vanos. Not sure what others measure
but I am sharing my measurement and Beisan shims are
thinner than the OEM on Jonathan's M3 at 154k miles.
I confirm they have never been done from the previous
service source using Dr.Vanos parts, so all OEM with
again 154k miles.

A quick measurement shows that the lower/bottom shim
is exactly 1.00mm means zero run out and the Beisan
is 0.980mm

The upper one at the top OEM is 0.986mm

0.006+/-mm is nothing and will not cause a rattle at all. For
those who may think I am saying that baisan parts are bad NO
I am not saying that, nor will just to confirm. I am just sharing
data nothing else. I use Beisan parts only and all the time.

Moving forward.


Regards,
Anri

[Anri]

cobra

No more black dark oil sludge.

I quit using hot tank parts washer due to staining
the aluminum very bad.

Regards,
Anri

[Anri]

The boring stuff I have to deal with...and time consuming..

One of the 02 never wanted to let go...

Regards
Anri

[sapote]

Moving to the Vanos. Not sure what others measure
but I am sharing my measurement and Beisan shims are
thinner than the OEM on Jonathan's M3 at 154k miles.
I confirm they have never been done from the previous
service source using Dr.Vanos parts, so all OEM with
again 154k miles.

A quick measurement shows that the lower/bottom shim
is exactly 1.00mm means zero run out and the Beisan
is 0.980mm

The upper one at the top OEM is 0.986mm

0.006+/-mm is nothing and will not cause a rattle at all.

Hi Anri, I assume these shims are the ones inside the spline-shaft roller bearing. Shim thickness is meaningless unless when compare with the cylinder spacer height, and the rollers dia.My understand is these parts are not plug-n-play, but they need to be lapped to fit, unless one use all new parts: 2 shims, spacer, 2 bearings, and the shaft with rotor, total 6 parts. The cylinder spacer is a non-wear part, but previous person might have lapped it down to fit.

[Anri]

might have lapped it down to fit.

The cylinder is part of sandwich and as you said it never wears out. If the
shims are thinner they will sink and the shaft will receive play. I can sand
2 shims down for the sake of a test. I can borrow one from the other engine
on the pipe line and I can show you..

The previous service source never did full vanos service and you
guess they did lapping..? come on Sapote. I confirm the parts have
never been touched, I can tell by looking at the part. Point is the thicker shim
will prevent the shaft from moving and why this kit is called "anti rattle kit".
I have note yet to seen OEM with 150k or 200k miles to have a play.

My point is that the OME parts are fine and not worn out at this milage. I
also have measured other units and they show the same +/-

[sapote]

Anri, I’m with you that most cars don’t have vanos rattle issue at 150K miles and I have been saying no need to touch the anti-rattle kit unless it’s verified there is plays.

In my post I just wanted to say shims thickness don’t mean anything unless the cylinder spacer is measured. Car might have multiple owners and we don’t know if the spacer had been filed/lapped before. For example, if my car has rattle issue, I just sand and lap the spacer to reduce the plays instead of buying the anti-rattle kit.

[Anri]

[FONT=Calibri] I just sand and lap the spacer to reduce the plays instead of buying the anti-rattle kit.

I would not use lapping method using compound it will damage the
small needle bearings.

I would kiss the cylinder height in order to expose the
shims and job done..Sometimes I get excited on New
parts.

Regards
Anri

[Anri]

Anybody heard of cleaning the intake plenum
from collected oil film? Always clean these.
We dont want to dilute the intake charge..

Vanos dialed in, injectors service and in a day
or so vroom vroom

Regards,
Anri