Slon Workshop E46 M3 Carbon Front Triangulating Reinforcement Kit

[Obioban]

as expensive as this is, I've been of the opinion for a while now that every real upgrade/maintenance item this car needs, if done correctly and completely, pretty much comes down to $5k.

full exhaust? $5k
suspension with bars and endlinks? $5k
brakes? maybe not quite $5k but it's not far off.
RACP with full rear end refresh? might be even more than $5k, that's the one I haven't done yet.
VANOS+bearings with new engine mounts, gaskets, and I did the cooling system at the same time. $5k.
Airbox with MAP conversion, maybe DME update, and a tune? $5k.

ok maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration but that's what it feels like.

I think people are having trouble with it because torsional rigidity isn’t a traditionally benchmarked area to upgrade.

[bigjae46]

as expensive as this is, I've been of the opinion for a while now that every real upgrade/maintenance item this car needs, if done correctly and completely, pretty much comes down to $5k.

full exhaust? $5k
suspension with bars and endlinks? $5k
brakes? maybe not quite $5k but it's not far off.
RACP with full rear end refresh? might be even more than $5k, that's the one I haven't done yet.
VANOS+bearings with new engine mounts, gaskets, and I did the cooling system at the same time. $5k.
Airbox with MAP conversion, maybe DME update, and a tune? $5k.

ok maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration but that's what it feels like.

Its pretty much been like that for the last 20 years.

[Obioban]

The CSL is only stiffer than the M3 coupe because of the CF roof.
CSL: 18,750 nm/deg
M3: 18,500 nm/deg

So, the CF roof is good for a ~1% increase. The reality is probably a bit more favorable than than, because the lighter you car is the less stiffness it needs (as in, less forces acting on it to bend it).

I was just thinking about it: we only know the rigidity of the M3 coupe or CSL because BMW listed them in their technical doc on the CSL roof, because they thought the 250 nm/deg (1%) increase was a meaningful benefit to the CF roof over the standard steel.

[tnord]

I think people are having trouble with it because torsional rigidity isn’t a traditionally benchmarked area to upgrade.

it's not something that's traditionally discussed, and even less commonly measured. but "better chassis," the biggest component of which is overall stiffness, is absolutely the top reason I'd consider selling the M3 for a 911. that's the origin of my previous comment justifying this purchase with the alternative of $5k in sales tax if I bought a different car.

our cars are still just a commuter 3 series at heart, and with that comes some significant sacrifices that are difficult to overcome. I'd love to put a back half cage in, and seam weld it specifically to improve rigitidy, but this bar would cost less than those efforts.

[Icecream]

I think we should crowd fund obiobans M3 and send it to the nurburgring. See how it does vs the csl. With all the weight reduction, power mods and chassis reinforcement, would be cool to see what impact it made.

[Obioban]

I think we should crowd fund obiobans M3 and send it to the nurburgring. See how it does vs the csl. With all the weight reduction, power mods and chassis reinforcement, would be cool to see what impact it made.

I’m not entirely certain I’m as good of a driver as whoever set the CSL lap record 😜

… and a healthy stock M3 with modern trackable tires would probably be faster than the OG CSL lap time, drivers equalized.

[Nate047]

I think we should crowd fund obiobans M3 and send it to the nurburgring. See how it does vs the csl. With all the weight reduction, power mods and chassis reinforcement, would be cool to see what impact it made.

It costs less than the price of this brace to ship a car over there

[terra]

I was just thinking about it: we only know the rigidity of the M3 coupe or CSL because BMW listed them in their technical doc on the CSL roof, because they thought the 250 nm/deg (1%) increase was a meaningful benefit to the CF roof over the standard steel.

I think they were more trying to highlight that there wasn't a decrease when going from a welded steel roof to a glued CF roof.

[EthanolTurbo]

I’m not entirely certain I’m as good of a driver as whoever set the CSL lap record 😜

… and a healthy stock M3 with modern trackable tires would probably be faster than the OG CSL lap time, drivers equalized.

Stock M3 on modern tires would devastate the OG CSL lap time. It's like a quarter century of tire tech advancement. I just wonder by how much.

[bigjae46]

Stock M3 on modern tires would devastate the OG CSL lap time. It's like a quarter century of tire tech advancement. I just wonder by how much.

Didn't the CSL have the first version of the Pilot Sport Cups? Those were pretty good tires. I'd guess new PSCs would be about 10-15 seconds faster which isn't massive considering the Ring is so long. So probably about 1-2 seconds on the average length track.

200 treadwear tires have come along way but I don't think anything has eclipsed the king of sticky tires - Hoosiers...which haven't changed a ton.

[0-60motorsports]

Stock M3 on modern tires would devastate the OG CSL lap time. It's like a quarter century of tire tech advancement. I just wonder by how much.

That would be awesome to see.

[Obioban]

Didn't the CSL have the first version of the Pilot Sport Cups? Those were pretty good tires. I'd guess new PSCs would be about 10-15 seconds faster which isn't massive considering the Ring is so long. So probably about 1-2 seconds on the average length track.

200 treadwear tires have come along way but I don't think anything has eclipsed the king of sticky tires - Hoosiers...which haven't changed a ton.

I just finished off a set of PSC2s, and kind of hate them. Nowhere near as good of a track tires as the PsC1s were. They may have A faster lap in them, but after that overheated for sure.

[EthanolTurbo]

Didn't the CSL have the first version of the Pilot Sport Cups? Those were pretty good tires. I'd guess new PSCs would be about 10-15 seconds faster which isn't massive considering the Ring is so long. So probably about 1-2 seconds on the average length track.

200 treadwear tires have come along way but I don't think anything has eclipsed the king of sticky tires - Hoosiers...which haven't changed a ton.

RE71-RS is probably pretty close to an older Hoosier. Tire compound development massively accelerated in the early 2000's thanks to the processing power they had for modeling and development.

On a side note, the E39 M5 must've been way more dramatic and full of tire spin with those older gen tires.

[RazorM]

I just finished off a set of PSC2s, and kind of hate them. Nowhere near as good of a track tires as the PsC1s were. They may have A faster lap in them, but after that overheated for sure.

Have you used CUP 2(tw200) or newest CUP 2 CONNECT(tw240)? They say the connects are successor to Cup2

[Obioban]

Have you used CUP 2(tw200) or newest CUP 2 CONNECT(tw240)? They say the connects are successor to Cup2

I have the connects. I got them specifically because I wanted to play with the connect system.