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Slon Workshop E46 M3 Carbon Front Triangulating Reinforcement Kit

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    Originally posted by Obioban View Post

    I have the connects. I got them specifically because I wanted to play with the connect system.
    The nicest thing I can say about them is that they're quiet on the street.​
    (Context: I'm building a house, so I go to the job site every day. My PSC2s are heat cycled out, so useless for track at this point. I'm running them as street tires until the house is built, so all the nails I pick up/plugs I get go into tires that'll be getting thrown out instead of my nice, healthy, PS4Ss.)

    2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
    2012 LMB/Black 128i
    2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

    Comment


      Man I missed some lively convo, just got back from a week+ in the CO mountains, pure bliss...

      I 100% agree with IamFODI​'s point here:

      Originally posted by IamFODI View Post
      Interesting to think of penalty-free chassis stiffening and weight reduction as endgame mods. They're literally the first things I'd do on any car. 🤷‍♂️


      When you build a racecar based on a unibody, be it a "body-in-white" or convert a street car (the point is "unibody as the base"), if the rules allow it and you have the pockets deep enough to do it, you seam weld the chassis. That's almost always the first step in building a production based racecar from a blank canvas. Then you put the best possible cage in the car that ties in key chassis points, triangulating as much as possible. That is, you maximize as many mounting points allowed by the rulebook. Then you gusset the chassis to the cage wherever possible (B-pillars to the main hoop, A-pillars to the forward hoop bars, strut tower cage bars to the chassis itself, etc.), again, if allowed by the racing series.

      Leaving the safety part out of the discussion for now... that kind of chassis work is many multiples of $5k in labor alone and why rulebooks don't always allow it - seam welding, multi-point cages and certain types of gusseting are cost-prohibitive for "budget" racing series and otherwise become barriers to entry for most would-be racers. While I'm not 100% up on rulebooks, I'm thinking Spec E30, Spec Miata, Spec-whatever. Chassis stiffening via those 3 things is a *very* big competitive advantage.

      Almost every single amateur racing but national level car I've seen built all start by exploiting the rulebook to the furthest extent possible with regards to chassis stiffening. Same thing for pro-cars based on production cars, but then we're talking big time money builds. My racecar isn't seam welded because I couldn't afford it when building it. It would have been north of the cost of the cage just to do the seam welding in my car, but I digress.

      So what the hell is my point?

      I don't think of this as an endgame mod in the slightest bit. Yes $5k is a lot for a brace. However, based on the torsional numbers Slon published and feedback from forum members deep into the "in-the-know" category who voted with their wallet, this would be a ground zero mod if I was building a non-caged M3 from scratch. I'd put this before the CF-roof and other weight-reducing mods.

      I know that philosophy may not jive with a lot of the peeps here and I fully respect the counterpoint argument. Some are looking for quantitative results measured in lap times before justifying the price - I get it. Or, most will argue for a street car it doesn't make sense - I get it. But 100% of the other mods we're getting really spendy on (brakes, suspension, CSL bits, CF trunks, etc.) all build on a foundation. Personally, I want that foundation to be as good as possible.​
      Build thread: Topaz Blue to Shark Blue

      Comment


        I was looking for the below video when I posted the above but couldn't find it. Great video on "why seam welding". While not a direct 1:1 comparison, the principles in this video apply to the concepts within this thread. A couple min into the vid, he talks about the key points in the car to seam weld. The first area he mentions is suspension mounting points i.e., Strut towers!!



        Listen to how many times he talks about strengthening/tying into the strut/shock towers.
        Build thread: Topaz Blue to Shark Blue

        Comment


          Originally posted by 0-60motorsports View Post

          That would be awesome to see.
          Agreed. Would love to see what the actual 3060lb CSL with the newest gen tires can take off the 7:50 time.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Casa de Mesa View Post
            I was looking for the below video when I posted the above but couldn't find it. Great video on "why seam welding". While not a direct 1:1 comparison, the principles in this video apply to the concepts within this thread. A couple min into the vid, he talks about the key points in the car to seam weld. The first area he mentions is suspension mounting points i.e., Strut towers!!



            Listen to how many times he talks about strengthening/tying into the strut/shock towers.
            I got to go to the Team O'Neal school, hands down the best course I've ever taken, they have everything AWD, RWD and FWD. Definitely built my confidence on loose gravel but easily translated to road as well.

            Comment


              Click image for larger version  Name:	fg.jpg Views:	0 Size:	81.2 KB ID:	236532

              Fun picture that caught my eye from Nissan's presentation on the new Z car.

              2.5% gains. Awww yeah.

              2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
              2012 LMB/Black 128i
              2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

              Comment


                If I'm tracking where those are located, that's actually pretty remarkable.
                Build thread: Topaz Blue to Shark Blue

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Obioban View Post
                  2.5% gains. Awww yeah.

                  To be fair, I take SLON's claims of 20% with a massive grain of salt.

                  2004 Dinan S3-R M3
                  2012 Dinan S1 X5M

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by 9kracing View Post


                    To be fair, I take SLON's claims of 20% with a massive grain of salt.
                    You see his dyno rig? Looks like it was setup properly to me. The only thing left would be trusting that 1) the load cells were calibrated and 2) that he’s telling the truth. Just putting that here for the record, as from an engineering perspective he’s done everything right and it’s easy for folks to misinterpret that!
                    ‘02 332iT / 6 | ‘70 Jaguar XJ6 electric conversion

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by 9kracing View Post


                      To be fair, I take SLON's claims of 20% with a massive grain of salt.
                      I disagree. They measured it over multiple chassis. I’m not sure what more you could ask for.

                      2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
                      2012 LMB/Black 128i
                      2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Obioban View Post

                        I disagree. They measured it over multiple chassis. I’m not sure what more you could ask for.
                        Impartial 3rd party verification?
                        2008 M3 Sedan 6MT
                        Slicktop, no iDrive | Öhlins by 3DM Motorsport | Autosolutions | SPL

                        2012 Mazda5 6MT
                        Koni Special Active, Volvo parts

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by IamFODI View Post
                          Impartial 3rd party verification?
                          I’ve never seen any shop other than Slon that cares enough to have the gear to measure torsional rigidity, so I’m not sure that’s a reasonable expectation.

                          2005 IR/IR M3 Coupe
                          2012 LMB/Black 128i
                          2008 Black/Black M5 Sedan

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by IamFODI View Post
                            Impartial 3rd party verification?
                            So, what source do you need it to come from and at what percentage should it be?

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Cronenberged View Post

                              So, what source do you need it to come from and at what percentage should it be?
                              I tested it. It was actually only 19.9%. Obviously this brace is a piece of shit.
                              Instagram: @logicalconclusion

                              Comment


                                It is times like these I'm glad I own a vert. It sure has saved me a lot of money since I don't need CF fenders, roofs, bumpers, strut braces, deck lids, and walls. Cause god knows I'd probably buy it all....
                                3.91 | CMP Subframe & RTAB Bushings | SMG (Relocated & Rebuilt) | ESS Gen 3 Supercharger | Redish | Beisan | GC Coilovers & ARCAs | Imola Interior | RE Rasp | RE Diablo | Storm Motorwerks Paddles | Will ZCPM3 Shift Knob | Apex ARC-8 19x9, 19x9.5 | Sony XAV-AX5000 | BAVSOUND | CSL & 255 SMG Upgrades | Tiag | Vert w/Hardtop

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