Karbonius: CSL full carbon vs Race

[ATB88]

In the market for a new Karbonius box, and see that the current offerings are the CSL "full carbon" model with the revised carbon trumpets (original csl replica seems to be discontinued), and the "race" box that has a has a built in snorkel that is of a different design of the standard CSL snorkels. I'm trying to figure out which is the best fit for me. I found one thread that asked for comparisons of these boxes on others, but 90% of the thread was just people shitting on Haimus, so.

It would seem that the main advantage of the race box is that it comes with a snorkel and you don't have to shell out an extra $600 for either the OE snorkel/flap or the Karb full carbon snorkel. Still, I'm not sure what all the nuances of each choice are, and I have a few questions.

For reference I'll be running the box in a daily driver convertible, the only other performance mod being SSV1 headers + cats. I will be getting HTE dyno tuned.

1. Standard CSL box snorkels: My understanding is that the OE snorkel with motorized flap has been deemed to be totally unnecessary and not worth installing. With that in mind, does the karbonius carbon snorkel do anything? Is there any meaningful difference between running or not running it on a standard CSL box other than cosmetics?

2. Ducting: One difference I see between the standard csl and race boxes is that the standard box would allow you to add in all of the extra CSL ducting whereas the race box does not. Does this ducting matter if I'm not going after having a "CSL replica" spec? My impression is that I'd probably skip caring about the ducting since I haven't seen anywhere that it makes any performance difference, but I could change my mind if I learn otherwise. Seems like a pain in the ass and would require a CSL bumper, right?

3. Is there any other possible drawback to the race box over the standard CSL box other than lack of CSL replica style authenticity? Is it optimized for track use over street use (i.e. flow is worse for low RPM daily driving vs standard CSL or something)? My current inclination is that the race box seems like the most attractive and simple solution, but I want to be sure that it's really the right thing for a car that I'm 100% street driving and will probably never see a track.

So, which should I go for? Thoughts and opinions appreciated!!

[EthanolTurbo]

I believe the Race Karb box makes a little less power from a recent thread I read. It does look really cool though and it's neat that it's "simplified."

[Slideways]

I believe the Race Karb box makes a little less power from a recent thread I read. It does look really cool though and it's neat that it's "simplified."

That is another version "V3" they make where the inlet necks down to 120mm. That is not the Race airbox which has a larger opening.

1. Ram air ducting is easier with a CSL style snorkel. Karb snorkel is lighter than OE - main advantage. OE has a minor advantage for street use as it can keep the flap closed when idling in traffic. Also, noise control if that is important to you.

2. You don't need a CSL bumper necessarily. A scoop like the Eventuri one can help direct air from the standard bumper. For a CSL bumper, you want the CSL snorkel design.

3. There is no real drawback. They will both perform the same as the inlet opening is ~200mm for both. You just choose the design you prefer and if you want to duct air to it or pull air like the stock design.

[D-O]

"Ram air ducting is easier with the CSL...."

Makes sense. Is it even possible to attach ducting to the Karb race box?

D-O

[Tbonem3]

Race version makes 10hp more cause it has the name "race"

All jokes aside, the race version is the same, basically, as Evolve, which was never hindered when compared to the traditional csl replica box from Karb. I've had both, only differences besides consctruction/quality were slight sound differences, no noticeable power/behavior change.

[discoelk]

"Ram air ducting is easier with the CSL...."

Makes sense. Is it even possible to attach ducting to the Karb race box?

D-O

The "ram air" effect would be the same with either box using a scoop like the Eventuri or csl bumper. Neither is completely sealed to the bumper duct. The OEM style box pulls air from the engine bay as well.

[D-O]

The "ram air" effect would be the same with either box using a scoop like the Eventuri or csl bumper. Neither is completely sealed to the bumper duct. The OEM style box pulls air from the engine bay as well.

Howdy, neighbor.

[repoman89]

I’ve had both, but when I had the standard box I didn’t use the CSL primary or secondary ducting. The race box not having provisions for the secondary ducting was an advantage to me because I knew I’d never bother with it. IMO the secondary ducting is completely useless without a functioning flap, and the benefits of the flap are very debatable as well aside from sound control.

I could see the cold ram air from the primary duct being useful if you have a CSL bumper

[ATB88]

I reached out to Karb by email and they confirmed that there's no meaningful performance difference between the standard CSL style or the race, just aesthetic and practical preferences. I guess I'll go with the race box to save myself $600 on having to buy a snorkel, and to prevent my OCD brain from trying to put in the complete CSL ducting one day.

[AWE46M3]

Karb Race is in stock and ready to ship today via Turner. Cheaper than buying from Karb and zero wait time. Also backed by Turners new lifetime warranty. I bought one last week. Way better than waiting 3+ months and then having to spend another 1k+ on a snorkel and ducting.