Bedding Brakes

[eacmen]

FYI some Brembo rings are mountable on stoptech hats but you'll need to source the aerorotor hardware:

Brembo rings 332x32mm, 355x32mm, and 380x32mm will all fit the Stoptech hats.

[elbert]

I also have ST40 calipers and PFC08 pads.
In the attached picture, the Girodisc rotor is on the car, I'm holding the Stoptech friction ring in the front.

Very minimal grooves on the Girodisc. 3 track days on them.
Stoptech rotors have noticeably deeper grooves but they have a lot more track time on them (I think 6 weekends)

I am a proponent for changing pads when changing rotors. I bed the pads at the track.

I'm interested. PFC has a Rotor Ring as well but they have patent hat that goes with them. It's interesting

I wouldn't invest in PFC rotors at this point. They completely stopped supporting their BBK's, and I bet their rotors won't be far behind.

[Ma13tt]

That's good to know. Thanks!!!!


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[Ma13tt]

I spoke with a representative from GiroDisc. They have come to the conclusion that since I did not sand the pad before bedding that I caused the pad to become super heated and that caused the grooving and sparks. Operator error is their conclusion. So, I will start with brand new PFC 08 brake pads. I shouldn't have to sand them, but I will take photos. I will follow their procedure in bedding them in. I will try to get 2 GoPro. One for a front wheel and one for the speedometer. I won't be able to try this until maybe Oct 14-15. I have 2 track days coming up. I am skeptical. But hey who knows.


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[eacmen]

I spoke with a representative from GiroDisc. They have come to the conclusion that since I did not sand the pad before bedding that I caused the pad to become super heated and that caused the grooving and sparks. Operator error is their conclusion. So, I will start with brand new PFC 08 brake pads. I shouldn't have to sand them, but I will take photos. I will follow their procedure in bedding them in. I will try to get 2 GoPro. One for a front wheel and one for the speedometer. I won't be able to try this until maybe Oct 14-15. I have 2 track days coming up. I am skeptical. But hey who knows.


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What the fuck did girodisc say? You need to sand down rotors before installing them?!? With what grit? How do you ensure you're sanding flat?

BTW my stoptech rings arrived within a few days. There have been delays in supply but looks like stoptech is catching up on the backlog in the past month.

[Ma13tt]

They want me to sand the pads. They believe the pads are not flat and I super heated the pads.


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[eacmen]

Hmm i've heard of that fixing glazed pads. I guess it can't hurt, there are distinct groove lines on the pad though. I would think you'd need like an 80 grit sandpaper with a sanding block to sand the pads straight and take enough material off to get through the cooked layers. Never done this myself though.

[Ma13tt]

Hmm i've heard of that fixing glazed pads. I guess it can't hurt, there are distinct groove lines on the pad though. I would think you'd need like an 80 grit sandpaper with a sanding block to sand the pads straight and take enough material off to get through the cooked layers. Never done this myself though.

Here is their link to bedding brakes/rotors

https://girodisc.com/content/instructions/GiroDisc-Install-and-Bedding.pdf

Best part is that is says “used Pads are the preferred choice to bed new rotors”

Their words not mine.


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[eacmen]

I dunno man sounds like a cop out response. I know a lot of folks running pfc08 and never heard of anyone needed to sand down pads or only bed with used pads.

Did you install the rotors with the vanes pointing the right direction? This could lead to overheating.

Also maybe you have a stuck caliper? Do the brakes get hot just driving and not braking?

[r4dr]

The GiroDisc rings don't show any evidence of heat. If they had been brought up to temperature and bedded, the color of the swept area and the flanges would not still look like factory fresh. If you look at the wear pattern on the old StopTech rings, you can even see grooves machined into it over time. This is normal for track-used parts, but the flip side is that the pad will wear that pattern into it inversely. Hence the sanding of the pad surface to create a "fresh" and uniform base to bed new rotors with.

The instructions state that used pads are easier to bed with, because bedded pads have burned off any binding agents or resins used in the manufacturing process. It's easier to bed used rotors with new pads (of the same compound that was previously used) and new rotors with used pads, than to bed new rotors with new pads because the whole system is green.

From the video I've seen, the bedding procedure carried out was nailing a cold system with threshold or beyond threshold ABS braking. As is commonly known, cold race pads are abrasive and will machine a rotor face, which is why it's not recommended to daily drive on a race compound. If you nail a cold system with max pressure, you're grinding the rotor face, hence the sparks.

PFC pads, the 08 in particular, have historically been one of the most popular pads in the Euro market. Hundreds, if not thousands, of GiroDisc rings have been used successfully with 08s in both track day and race scenarios. If we take a step back here, does it really make sense to make the sweeping statement that 08s are somehow not compatible with these rings all of a sudden?

[Ma13tt]

The GiroDisc rings don't show any evidence of heat. If they had been brought up to temperature and bedded, the color of the swept area and the flanges would not still look like factory fresh. If you look at the wear pattern on the old StopTech rings, you can even see grooves machined into it over time. This is normal for track-used parts, but the flip side is that the pad will wear that pattern into it inversely. Hence the sanding of the pad surface to create a "fresh" and uniform base to bed new rotors with.

The instructions state that used pads are easier to bed with, because bedded pads have burned off any binding agents or resins used in the manufacturing process. It's easier to bed used rotors with new pads (of the same compound that was previously used) and new rotors with used pads, than to bed new rotors with new pads because the whole system is green.

From the video I've seen, the bedding procedure carried out was nailing a cold system with threshold or beyond threshold ABS braking. As is commonly known, cold race pads are abrasive and will machine a rotor face, which is why it's not recommended to daily drive on a race compound. If you nail a cold system with max pressure, you're grinding the rotor face, hence the sparks.

PFC pads, the 08 in particular, have historically been one of the most popular pads in the Euro market. Hundreds, if not thousands, of GiroDisc rings have been used successfully with 08s in both track day and race scenarios. If we take a step back here, does it really make sense to make the sweeping statement that 08s are somehow not compatible with these rings all of a sudden?

Ladies and gentlemen this is a GiroDisc representative. I've only shared the video with 2 individuals. your bedding procedure is vague. The instructions tell thr individual to follow the procedure of the Brake Pad company for proper bedding. Please state your procedure you would like me to use so I can document and share with the forum. Do you want me to use new or old pads and exact procedure you want me to use and I will do my best to document and follow. If I fcked up the first time, I will admit it. I have zero pride and nothing to lose. BMW is not calling me for the 2024 season. The benefit is to the members of this forum. Please help.


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[Estoril]

Ladies and gentlemen this is a GiroDisc representative. I've only shared the video with 2 individuals. your bedding procedure is vague. The instructions tell thr individual to follow the procedure of the Brake Pad company for proper bedding. Please state your procedure you would like me to use so I can document and share with the forum. Do you want me to use new or old pads and exact procedure you want me to use and I will do my best to document and follow. If I fcked up the first time, I will admit it. I have zero pride and nothing to lose. BMW is not calling me for the 2024 season. The benefit is to the members of this forum. Please help.


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I gave you the proper bedding procedure on page 3.

[Ma13tt]

I gave you the proper bedding procedure on page 3.

Huh? Page 3? Post 3? I'm using Tapatalk so it doesn't go by pages on an iPhone. Sorry. Now that I know who you are, I will search you posts. If you would have identified yourself and say start over and try this and let me know, different story. So thank you. And I will let you know how it goes.


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[r4dr]

I've posted on here a fair bit and have been open about where I work... that being said, I think you quoted Estoril in your last post, who is a different person.

Personally, I find it difficult to properly bed race pads in on the street, and I've never followed any company's instructions to a T. Street bedding works best with street pads, because they don't need to be at race temp in order to lay down the transfer layer. Our track organizations in the PNW do the first few laps of the day under caution, so I use those laps to apply medium to medium-hard brake pressure and exaggerate my braking zones in order to build heat up in the system. Keep in mind that the pads will get hot quicker than the rotors just because of the difference in mass. If there's a long straight, I check my mirrors and brake a few times to make sure the system doesn't get too cold. After a while, you're essentially "painting" a layer of the pad material onto the rotor surface, which is what provides the friction against the pad when you stop.

Here's a photo from my car of the before rotor. This is a new rotor surface and used pad, and the car had been washed the night before. As you can see, the uneven surface of the used pad was abrasive at cold temperatures and it "cleaned" the corrosion off the swept area during the street driving to the track. This photo was taken in the paddock before the first session of the day.



Here it is after the first session where I did what I described above. Note the change in the color of the rotor surface, which shows the system has gotten up to temp and laid down a proper transfer layer. Once again, this is really hard to do with a race pad on the street because of the high temperatures a race compound is designed to work at.



I promise we're not trying to gaslight you... just want to work and find a solution to the issue at hand. Keep me posted on how it goes.