crankshaft rear seal replace without removing the seal frame - anyone?

[sapote]

The normal way is to remove the seal frame F off the egnine block, then remove and replace the old seal S, then install the frame with new seal back to the block, and new U shape gasket and add some sealant on the oil pan lip.
But why not just leave the seal frame alone and pry the old seal off and install the new seal without removing the seal-frame? This would avoid disturbing the oil pan gasket and not need to replace the U gasket.

nee

[cobra]

If it's like the front main seal, then I don't see why you couldn't do that. Would require a tool to remove the old one and also press in the new one without folding over the lip.

[Mr.wReckless]

I did this.. And it leaked... Would not recommend. Though I will say that when I fitted the pure seal alone it was the old style, and I still removed the frame (I forget which seal is which, I believe the old is with the internal spring at the back), whereas when I swapped the whole frame with the seal preinstalled it was a newer style springless seal. I also polished the crank and applied thread sealer to the bolts as well as ample sealant for the u-shaped gasket and the joint for the oil pan.

Removing just the seal I see plenty of people use 2 wood screws either side and manage to pry it out relatively cleanly that way. If you choose to fit just the seal I would recommend getting the newest style, as well as you can get a plastic tool to help you fit the seal over the crank without disturbing the lip.

Just the seal that leaked

Polished the crank with a dremel

Forgot but probably the "new seal" fitted to the old frame. And the new seal fitted in a new frame, IMO worth it. With the plastic tool for installing.

Regards

[bigjae46]

Do it. And the bonus is you'll get a nice upper body workout when you have to remove the transmission again to do the job over.

[sapote]

Removing just the seal I see plenty of people use 2 wood screws either side and manage to pry it out relatively cleanly that way. If you choose to fit just the seal I would recommend getting the newest style, as well as you can get a plastic tool to help you fit the seal over the crank without disturbing the lip.

So the leaking seal was the rubber type with internal spring -- so we don't know it was due to the rubber seal or the rough sealing surface crank.
Yes, I will use the sheetmetal screws to pull the old seal out. The seal I bought is Corteco PTFE teflon seal with no spring which requires install dry no oil. It came with the plastic guide for protecting the seal lip.
I don't see the difference of install the seal without removing the frame vs removing frame off then swap the old seal, if done carefully.

[sapote]

Do it. And the bonus is you'll get a nice upper body workout when you have to remove the transmission again to do the job over.

This doesn't help since you didn't say why, and I don't see the reason why it will leak compared to removing the frame and swap out the old seal off the car. Do you mean I have to buy the frame with seal pre-installed and not try to install the new seal on the old frame?

[bigjae46]

This doesn't help since you didn't say why, and I don't see the reason why it will leak compared to removing the frame and swap out the old seal off the car. Do you mean I have to buy the frame with seal pre-installed and not try to install the new seal on the old frame?

I'm sure it's possible to make it leak free but you're talking about 5 bolts and trying to save an oil pan gasket that's probably going to leak any way in 20k-30k miles and typically doesn't leak from that spot.

[SkunkWorks]

Having just done this job, I'm not sure what you save by doing the bare minimum and risk having to pull the transmission to redo everything when it inevitably leaks again.

[sapote]

Having just done this job, I'm not sure what you save by doing the bare minimum and risk having to pull the transmission to redo everything when it inevitably leaks again.

Minimize the work is not cheap-out; I understand that most people removed the seal frame and then swap the seal out off the the ca, but I have seen the logical reason of why the proposed way is bad. Yes, this way of not removing the frame can save the time and the potential of leaking at the U gasket and the oil pan.

Tell me why the proposed way has more potential of leaking than the normal way?

[sapote]

The biggest difference between the two methods: It's a bit more difficult to remove the old seal off the frame on the car vs frame and seal removed off the car. But the new seal installation should be similar in either method.
I feel skipping the step of removing the seal-frame avoids the potential of oil leak around the disturbed frame. Yes or no?

[bimmerfan08]

The normal way is to remove the seal frame F off the egnine block, then remove and replace the old seal S, then install the frame with new seal back to the block, and new U shape gasket and add some sealant on the oil pan lip.
But why not just leave the seal frame alone and pry the old seal off and install the new seal without removing the seal-frame? This would avoid disturbing the oil pan gasket and not need to replace the U gasket.

nee

Is this the vid that you snagged that screenshot from?

https://youtu.be/Usi3h-hXmNo?si=-LOXdzGGLDTDze9L

[sapote]

Is this the vid that you snagged that screenshot from?

Yes.

Btw, no need to remove the whole drive shaft off as in the video he did. Just remove its front off the guibo as hang it to the side while removing the tranny. One needs to drop the CSB off the mounting studs, then slide the front half shaft rearward -- the splices telescoping into the rear half -- then it will be off the guibo. Trying to pull it down without sliding it rearward will damage the guibo. Then use shoe strings to hang the rear half up to avoid damaging the rear CV joint.

Also, a lead screw tranny jack (as in the video) is better than a hydraulic because lead-screw allows you to have finer control of the tranny height (to match the engine block) than the hydraulick with pumping and releasing control.