SMG Relocation Alternatives?

[TramRam]

Thanks thus far for sharing your knowledge! Good stuff breddah! (I'm Jamaican).

With so of your experience, do you use & recommend Burkhart's fluid over the CHF 11S? I'm in South Florida.

Have you heard of M3 owners swapping out their OE transmissions for the newer 8 speed 8HP65 that comes in the E92 & up M3s,4s, 6s, etc??? In my SMG hating environment, with car guys who love the 3rd pedal, they all say that this tranny would make a great swap from SMG if one were ever to want a change for greater reliability & a 'near' manual transmission feel. I'm wondering what you might know about this if anything. Supposedly a $1k adapter plate exists to bolt up to our S54s.

TIA!

TramRam

[oceansize]

Thanks thus far for sharing your knowledge! Good stuff breddah! (I'm Jamaican).

With so of your experience, do you use & recommend Burkhart's fluid over the CHF 11S? I'm in South Florida.

Have you heard of M3 owners swapping out their OE transmissions for the newer 8 speed 8HP65 that comes in the E92 & up M3s,4s, 6s, etc??? In my SMG hating environment, with car guys who love the 3rd pedal, they all say that this tranny would make a great swap from SMG if one were ever to want a change for greater reliability & a 'near' manual transmission feel. I'm wondering what you might know about this if anything. Supposedly a $1k adapter plate exists to bolt up to our S54s.

TIA!

TramRam

In that heat, I personally would go with Burkhart's and yes I use it.

Transmission swaps are definitely not an area where I have any real world knowledge.

[TramRam]

What would you suggest would be the surest way to know that you've got fresh Burkhart HD fluid throughout the system?

I'm still a bit fuzzy about what involvement the fluid in the reservoir plays. At last discussion, my take-away was that that fluid simply sits there purely for backfill for fluid depletion within the pump system which is a closed (deadheaded) system in which even seal leakages are internal, thus not a leak to the outside (which you would be able to see) and therefore not considered to be a fluid draw. Clearly no point in just turkey basting the reservoir of the CHF and refilling with the Burkhart! It's be great to know how the fluid moves around in that thing!

TR

[zivagolee]

Thanks thus far for sharing your knowledge! Good stuff breddah! (I'm Jamaican).

Have you heard of M3 owners swapping out their OE transmissions for the newer 8 speed 8HP65 that comes in the E92 & up M3s,4s, 6s, etc??? In my SMG hating environment, with car guys who love the 3rd pedal, they all say that this tranny would make a great swap from SMG if one were ever to want a change for greater reliability & a 'near' manual transmission feel. I'm wondering what you might know about this if anything. Supposedly a $1k adapter plate exists to bolt up to our S54s.

I have been doing some research on this but still a lot to learn.

For DCT swaps, https://www.seemslegitgarage.com/DCT has a lot of information and they also make plates that mate to the S54.

For the 8HP, seemslegitgarage also has the adapter plates too: https://www.seemslegitgarage.com/pro...hp-adapter-kit. https://htg-tuning.com/product-categ...g-electronics/ has the TCU to drive this.

In all, I am curious to see how good these are. With DCT, I canimagine heat will be the issue as well as a lot of cars will include a cooler just for the DCT.

[oceansize]

What would you suggest would be the surest way to know that you've got fresh Burkhart HD fluid throughout the system?

I'm still a bit fuzzy about what involvement the fluid in the reservoir plays. At last discussion, my take-away was that that fluid simply sits there purely for backfill for fluid depletion within the pump system which is a closed (deadheaded) system in which even seal leakages are internal, thus not a leak to the outside (which you would be able to see) and therefore not considered to be a fluid draw. Clearly no point in just turkey basting the reservoir of the CHF and refilling with the Burkhart! It's be great to know how the fluid moves around in that thing!

TR

You check the fluid level at room temperature via a dipstick attached to the reservoir lid. When the pump kicks on, remember it only runs when the pressure in the system dips to a certain point, it pulls from reservoir, pressure is then built and stored and whatever remains can then travel back up the hose however far it needs to.

There is very small amount of fluid in the entire system, like 1/2 a liter. If at room temp the bulk of that will be in the reservoir and the pump itself. If your removing the clutch slave then your going to get all you need to out.

[eacmen]

What would you suggest would be the surest way to know that you've got fresh Burkhart HD fluid throughout the system?

TR

Sure way is to gravity bleed the system so crack the fittings at the trans and let all the old fluid drain out. Then fill the system with the burkhart fluid with the fittings still cracked but draining into a clean pan so you can reuse the fluid.

Burkhart used to recommend not using their fluid when relocating the pump. Seems like they removed that warning. Not sure if they changed the fluid or not, but that used to be their recommendation.

[TramRam]

There is very small amount of fluid in the entire system, like 1/2 a liter. If at room temp the bulk of that will be in the reservoir and the pump itself. If your removing the clutch slave then your going to get all you need to out.

OK! I understand better the now OCEANSIZE... what I'm still not totally clear on is, that by removing the clutch actuator, there will be a loss of fluid weather I replace that unit or not, if by manually purging as much remaining fluid out of the actuator as I can from it while the system is open, I've created additional room for the Burkhart fluid once I close it up again. Now once I have ALSO emptied my reservoir before reconnecting it, once I reconnect its tube to the pump body & fill the empty reservoir with Burkhart fluid & do any additional topping off with the same fluid, after running the bleeding sequences (with INPA), then I'm thinking that I should be good, right? I want to be sure not to eff this up.

Thanks, TR

[oceansize]

Why would you remove the actuator? Are you dropping the tranny? Do you mean something else?

Remove pump, drain. Relocate. Crack fittings at tranny like eacmen said. Reattach everything. Fill at reservoir. Run bleeds in INPA. That’s it in a nutshell.

[TramRam]

There is very small amount of fluid in the entire system, like 1/2 a liter. If at room temp the bulk of that will be in the reservoir and the pump itself. If your removing the clutch slave then your going to get all you need to out.

OK! I understand better the now OCEANSIZE... what I'm still not totally clear on is, that by removing the clutch actuator, there will be a loss of fluid weather I replace that unit or not, if by manually purging as much remaining fluid out of the actuator as I can from it while the system is open, I've created additional room for the Burkhart fluid once I close it up again. Now once I have ALSO emptied my reservoir before reconnecting it, once I reconnect its tube to the pump body & fill the empty reservoir with Burkhart fluid & do any additional topping off with the same fluid, after running the bleeding sequences (with INPA), then I'm thinking that I should be good, right? I want to be sure not to eff this up.

Thanks, TR

[TramRam]

Why would you remove the actuator? Are you dropping the tranny? Do you mean something else?

Remove pump, drain. Relocate. Crack fittings at tranny like eacmen said. Reattach everything. Fill at reservoir. Run bleeds in INPA. That’s it in a nutshell.

Imissed this message. Thanks, I'm clear on it now. I'm seriously considering the relo to the drug bin & possibly the need to replace my cl actuator while I'm at it since it's the original.

SMG has been daunting for me but I'm convinced that with familiarity it'll become more comfortable with it. I'm in an SMG desert. No one around me likes them. Even those who work on them so I'm convinced I need to know more. This Forum has been a godsend. Thx all

[TramRam]

Why would you remove the actuator? Are you dropping the tranny? Do you mean something else?

Remove pump, drain. Relocate. Crack fittings at tranny like eacmen said. Reattach everything. Fill at reservoir. Run bleeds in INPA. That’s it in a nutshell.

BACKGROUND: I have like 3 years on my hyd. pump seals, (I THINK the solenoid seals were changed at the same time (?)) and maybe 4 years on my Burkhart motor (with fresh CHF). If I push the car hard for several auto OR manual shifts, (85 mph up), I'll get the yellow cog light. USUALLY that's all I get and it continues to run OK, but sometimes from a traffic light move off it'll shift to neutral but if I wait maybe 5-10 seconds and move the stick in and out of gear, it'll go back into gear and move fine, but I'm cautious from there until I get to where I'm going. I carry a simple Code Reader that I can use to clear the code (P1717 (?) I think. If I have my laptop, INPA will show a 56. When I clear it, I'm good again for a good while, (days), as long as I drive it easy with reduced shifting. It's as though there's a maximum number of shifts that I can get before I get the cog again and if it's hot out, I'll possibly get the shift-out-of-gear scenario.

QUESTIONS: When I finally pull the trigger and get my pump relocated, and because I know that neither the Gear Selector OR Clutch Actuators were NOT rebuilt or replaced during my 12 years of ownership, is this not a good time to rebuild or replace these two parts while the system is open or is it recommended to just wait for these to fail? Also, are quality rebuild kits available for these parts? My clutch bite feels weird at times but when it was last available to inspect, my clutch disk and plate surfaces looked great about 15k ago and I do not launch or anything brutal in gear transitions. I maybe put 4k a year now & I don't track this car. Not fully understanding INPA, I see 'Solenoid Valve Shift Paths' for the gears and 'Solenoid Valve Open Clutch' data (that states that the clutch is being 'correctly activated', but I don't know that I should interpret that to mean that all is well. I see a The 'Nominal', 'Actual' * 'Difference'. On my last check, for the Clutch solenoid, I saw Nominal of 400, Actual of 420 and the Difference of 23. I do not know what that means but that is says, 'Clutch being correctly activated'. Any suggestions guys?

As usual, thanks in advance!

TR

[oceansize]

BACKGROUND: I have like 3 years on my hyd. pump seals, (I THINK the solenoid seals were changed at the same time (?)) and maybe 4 years on my Burkhart motor (with fresh CHF). If I push the car hard for several auto OR manual shifts, (85 mph up), I'll get the yellow cog light. USUALLY that's all I get and it continues to run OK, but sometimes from a traffic light move off it'll shift to neutral but if I wait maybe 5-10 seconds and move the stick in and out of gear, it'll go back into gear and move fine, but I'm cautious from there until I get to where I'm going. I carry a simple Code Reader that I can use to clear the code (P1717 (?) I think. If I have my laptop, INPA will show a 56. When I clear it, I'm good again for a good while, (days), as long as I drive it easy with reduced shifting. It's as though there's a maximum number of shifts that I can get before I get the cog again and if it's hot out, I'll possibly get the shift-out-of-gear scenario.

QUESTIONS: When I finally pull the trigger and get my pump relocated, and because I know that neither the Gear Selector OR Clutch Actuators were NOT rebuilt or replaced during my 12 years of ownership, is this not a good time to rebuild or replace these two parts while the system is open or is it recommended to just wait for these to fail? Also, are quality rebuild kits available for these parts? My clutch bite feels weird at times but when it was last available to inspect, my clutch disk and plate surfaces looked great about 15k ago and I do not launch or anything brutal in gear transitions. I maybe put 4k a year now & I don't track this car. Not fully understanding INPA, I see 'Solenoid Valve Shift Paths' for the gears and 'Solenoid Valve Open Clutch' data (that states that the clutch is being 'correctly activated', but I don't know that I should interpret that to mean that all is well. I see a The 'Nominal', 'Actual' * 'Difference'. On my last check, for the Clutch solenoid, I saw Nominal of 400, Actual of 420 and the Difference of 23. I do not know what that means but that is says, 'Clutch being correctly activated'. Any suggestions guys?

As usual, thanks in advance!

TR

1. Once your pump fully pressurizes at idle how long does it take before it has to re-pressurize (no shifting and monitoring via INPA)?
2. Get DIS (what was around pre-INPA) running on a virtual machine and test the accumulator.
3. If the accumulator, motor, and temperature sensor are good then its likely the seals have gone bad. MLREng and Burkhart are the go to for seals, motors, o-rings, etc. I'd probably go MLR for new seals. The other option is to try Burkhart's fluid.
4. I'd let the actuator go till failure if it was me but if dropping the tranny I understand the thought process.
5. I'd let the gear position sensor go to failure.
6. Nobody, that I've come across, fully understands the implications of default/nominal versus your current true values with respect to what is good, bad, or indifferent. My values below

[S14REALM3]

Here are 6 different relocation pictures I have collected for the drug bin location. Mine is the last Pic. Absolutely the best SMG maintenance/mod I have done. No issues at all. 124k miles now. Made this relocation at 105k. You will hear the pump prime when you open your door, I like it.

[0-60motorsports]

Hey Guys does anyone know any one else who makes Relocation bracket (minus MLR ridiculously expensive SMG Pump Bracket) for cars with the ABS pump in the Bin on the passenger side?

[MGQFrank]

Interesting thread!