Euro headers vs Supersprint step 1

[AP3X_FTW]

Man I miss the old M3F days. Nothing will compare 😥

It sounds like bmwfnatic is offering to run a GB on new Euro headers. TBH, I didn't think you could even get new Euro headers from BMW these days... but I've been off the forums and out of the loop for years. Is anyone else jumping in for a set at $1k shipped? If this is feasible, it seems like a no-brainer to me.

[LeopardM3]

Man I miss the old M3F days. Nothing will compare 😥

It sounds like bmwfnatic is offering to run a GB on new Euro headers. TBH, I didn't think you could even get new Euro headers from BMW these days... but I've been off the forums and out of the loop for years. Is anyone else jumping in for a set at $1k shipped? If this is feasible, it seems like a no-brainer to me.

I will say, the UI, functionality, and everything else here is much better. That forum badly needed upgrading. But of course, the wealth of knowledge and community was unmatched. I still mourn sometimes. Probably why I keep forgetting to come back here more often, just in mourning over the past.

[EthanolTurbo]

Oem H-pipe is far better than SS x-pipe . If you want to gain from SS V1 use H-pipe .

If you want to gain from SS v1, use oversize SS dual section 2 which is just a bigger OEM section 2.

[cornerbalanced]

So…ultimate conclusion is:

SSV1s are a waste of money, unless you’re chasing every ounce of power (around +6whp & +2tq from euro to SSV1 per Cris) and have already invested in other supporting mods e.g. CSL airbox, likely larger injectors, so forth.

For half the price, euro headers seem like the clear winner to me…no matter how you cut it, you’re spending an extra $1,000-$2,000 for marginal gains over a euro/CSL setup. Seems like for most people, that $1-2k is better spent else where.

BBRTuning has tuned dozens of S54s at this point? I remember him also telling me that the SSV1s really aren’t worth it either, and Euro headers are genuinely good for the price you pay.

[Obioban]

So…ultimate conclusion is:

SSV1s are a waste of money, unless you’re chasing every ounce of power (around +6whp & +2tq from euro to SSV1 per Cris) and have already invested in other supporting mods e.g. CSL airbox, likely larger injectors, so forth.

For half the price, euro headers seem like the clear winner to me…no matter how you cut it, you’re spending an extra $1,000-$2,000 for marginal gains over a euro/CSL setup. Seems like for most people, that $1-2k is better spent else where.

BBRTuning has tuned dozens of S54s at this point? I remember him also telling me that the SSV1s really aren’t worth it either, and Euro headers are genuinely good for the price you pay.

I think they’re become “sensible” (nothing for this car really is), when you’re tracking and need to pay for cats that can take the heat either way (HJS).

[Slideways]

So…ultimate conclusion is:

SSV1s are a waste of money, unless you’re chasing every ounce of power (around +6whp & +2tq from euro to SSV1 per Cris) and have already invested in other supporting mods e.g. CSL airbox, likely larger injectors, so forth.

For half the price, euro headers seem like the clear winner to me…no matter how you cut it, you’re spending an extra $1,000-$2,000 for marginal gains over a euro/CSL setup. Seems like for most people, that $1-2k is better spent else where.

BBRTuning has tuned dozens of S54s at this point? I remember him also telling me that the SSV1s really aren’t worth it either, and Euro headers are genuinely good for the price you pay.

On M3F, there were dynos showing the x-pipe performed worse than the stock section 2 when testing back to back. If that x-pipe is creating a restriction, it could be limiting any improvement of the V1s over the Euros. Ideally, Matt would have dynoed the car with the Euro headers, stock section 1 and 2 with the factory Euro tune and then swapped to the SS V1s with Euro tune. You'd basically get apples to apples comparison of the stock 2.36" system and 2.5" dual SS.

Evolve did a set of Supersprint V2 headers on a completely stock a Euro S54 M coupe and picked up the expected gain in hp and tq. Disregard the final tuned dyno run as they raised the rev limiter and changed the ECU calibration -

[cornerbalanced]

On M3F, there were dynos showing the x-pipe performed worse than the stock section 2 when testing back to back. If that x-pipe is creating a restriction, it could be limiting any improvement of the V1s over the Euros. Ideally, Matt would have dynoed the car with the Euro headers, stock section 1 and 2 with the factory Euro tune and then swapped to the SS V1s with Euro tune. You'd basically get apples to apples comparison of the stock 2.36" system and 2.5" dual SS.

Evolve did a set of Supersprint V2 headers on a completely stock a Euro S54 M coupe and picked up the expected gain in hp and tq. Disregard the final tuned dyno run as they raised the rev limiter and changed the ECU calibration -

The numbers I referenced were from an earlier post from CrisSilberGrau - euro header & stock section 1/2 vs. SSV1s, dual SS res section 1 & stock section 2. A bit better than the initial Kassel comparison, but still not ideal.

Wild to see that dramatic of a gain from V2s! Hmm…maybe I hold off for some V1s. Wish someone would come out with an actual 1:1 comparison.

[CrisSilberGrau]

So…ultimate conclusion is:

SSV1s are a waste of money, unless you’re chasing every ounce of power (around +6whp & +2tq from euro to SSV1 per Cris) and have already invested in other supporting mods e.g. CSL airbox, likely larger injectors, so forth.

For half the price, euro headers seem like the clear winner to me…no matter how you cut it, you’re spending an extra $1,000-$2,000 for marginal gains over a euro/CSL setup. Seems like for most people, that $1-2k is better spent else where.

BBRTuning has tuned dozens of S54s at this point? I remember him also telling me that the SSV1s really aren’t worth it either, and Euro headers are genuinely good for the price you pay.

I think you're over reaching with the waste of money description.

Are they a waste of money?

Absolutely not. Why would they be selling them almost 15 years on and everyone who's been there and back has them on their car. They make power, they do need supporting mods to get the most value out of them.

The value vs OEM euro is not there, that no one can argue with.

To do a similar test like BBRTuning did, takes a lot of time. A lot more money. And the time line can't be too long either unless you conduct the test in an area where weather conditions don't vary greatly. Also a shop that has a reputable dyno that doesn't spit out +360whp on OEM euro headers with a fucking x pipe. (I'm more upset I'm still posting about this)

Precisely why this review is so disingenuous, it is extremely poor and done by an outfit that still has some respect in our community (which is wildly disappointing). Also, I get the M3f.net comments. Trash comparison like this with silly dyno numbers would be literally laughed out.

[Rudbari]

If you want to gain from SS v1, use oversize SS dual section 2 which is just a bigger OEM section 2.

I am using SS section dual

[Obioban]

This thread is spiraling. Multiple compounding variables (tune, headers, section 2, section 1), ghosts of shady tune pushers past showing up.

Happily, we know exactly what euro headers are good for, peak power wise.
Euro M3, stock, stock tune = 343 bhp = 340 hp
US M3, stock, stock tune = 333hp
^official BMW numbers

Therefore, all other variables isolated out, euro headers/cats are good for 7 peak hp over US headers/cats.

I don't mean this as a knock against euro headers-- I ran them on my previous M3 wagon; I plan to run them on my likely future e39 532i DD. The fit great, have factory reliability, make reasonable power, and have a plug and play factory tune ready to go for them. If you're running a CSL airbox, factory tune for that, too (with a little tweak for cams).

... but, I also think the V1s, properly tuned and with a section 2 that doesn't restrict power, are good for ~double the gains due to headers (factoring out the tune, section 2, etc-- the actual gains from headers). They also give you extra pre cat 02 bungs, which is hugely useful, and the cost difference isn't as significant if you're using the car in a way (track, reasonably quickly) where the stock cats would melt (as in, I went through two sets of factory cats under the original 80,000 mile emissions warranty on my car, because they were melting on track). There is a reason the SS stepped headers are the only headers the euro M3/CSL owners bother to upgrade to :P

[AP3X_FTW]

It's been many, many years since my last SS V1 setup and last time around it was on a street car. What does everyone do for section 2 if you have a track/race car running an exhaust like Bimmerworlds? Custom the only option still?

[LeopardM3]

Man I miss the old M3F days. Nothing will compare 😥

It sounds like bmwfnatic is offering to run a GB on new Euro headers. TBH, I didn't think you could even get new Euro headers from BMW these days... but I've been off the forums and out of the loop for years. Is anyone else jumping in for a set at $1k shipped? If this is feasible, it seems like a no-brainer to me.

I'd probably be in for GB on Euro headers honestly...

[bmw m3 s50]

Max NA horsepower on this platform, S54 et al, is a ludicrous proposition when you take value into account. You do it cause you love it and no other reason. Because it doesn't make sense otherwise.

Probably, the most valid point of this thread.

[bmwfnatic]

I'd probably be in for GB on Euro headers honestly...

Send me a PM.

[AP3X_FTW]

I'd probably be in for GB on Euro headers honestly...

Send bmwfnatic a PM! I think we just needed one more person to join to get the second batch going. 👍