Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

S54 Build Decisions: Turbo vs. High-Revving NA – Seeking Experienced Opinions

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    S54 Build Decisions: Turbo vs. High-Revving NA – Seeking Experienced Opinions

    Attn: Gearhead brothers,

    I’ve got an extra S54 engine on hand, and I’m at a bit of a crossroads in terms of what to do with it. My end goal is to create something that’s fun for spirited street driving but also capable on track, with a target of around 420ish wheel horsepower. Now, the question is: do I go turbo or stick with a naturally aspirated, high-revving build? I’m leaning towards the latter, but I’d love to hear your thoughts, especially from those who’ve done either or both builds. I pulled this engine out of a running car, with unknown milage. Although running when pulled, given the nature, I plan to do a full break down, rebuild regardless of the route I take.

    Turbocharging the S54

    The turbo route seems like an easy way to hit my power target with a broader torque band, but I’m wondering how much that could affect the driving experience. I know turbocharging offers plenty of low-end punch and certainly increases power, but does it alter the natural feel of the car, especially on track? I’m all for a bit of grunt, but I also want to make sure I’m not losing the sharp, connected feeling that makes the E46 M3 so much fun to drive. I’ve had my fair share of turbocharged builds, and I do enjoy the added power, but I’m curious about how it affects the balance and trackability of a car that’s pretty much been known for its naturally aspirated, high-revving nature.

    High-Revving Naturally Aspirated Build (9,500 RPM+/-)

    On the flip side, I’ve been thinking about sticking with a naturally aspirated setup and pushing the rev limit to something around 9,500 RPM. There’s just something inherently satisfying about a high-revving s54 engine—especially the way it behaves at the top of the rev range, she just keeps pulling. But I’m not blind to the fact that this kind of build might sacrifice some low-end torque, which is a bit of a trade-off. For those who’ve gone down the high-revving NA route with an S54, how does the engine behave once you push the redline higher? Does it stay usable and fun on the street, or does it lean more towards a track-only setup? I’ve seen some solid NA builds, but I’d love to get real-world input on how these setups hold up on both street and track.

    My current set up in the car now is putting down 310whp, with a Carbon box, euro headers, and a tune. Besides letting my girl rip and pull strong to 8,250 RPM, the way that engine screams with a box at WOT just hits different - a hard set up and experience to beat and that's what has me leaning towards the high-rev NA route.

    Both builds have their merits, but I’m really trying to figure out which one will balance the high-revving NA experience I’m after, while still being fun, reliable, and track-ready. If you’ve had experience with either of these builds—or better yet, both—I’d love to hear your thoughts on how each affects overall drivability, especially when trying to keep the car well-rounded for different driving situations.

    Looking forward to hearing your experiences and any advice you’ve got!

    Best,
    -Jeremy.

    #2
    ..
    DD: /// 2011.5 Jerez/bamboo E90 M3 · DCT · Slicktop · Instagram
    /// 2004 Silvergrey M3 · Coupe · 6spd · Slicktop · zero options
    More info: https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...os-supersprint

    Comment


      #3
      Turboing will give you a complete experience, plus if you expect it to be comparable to today’s modern cars, you are in for disappointment, an aftermarket turbo kit will be a far cry from what an OEM do in terms of overall drivability, etc.

      with either approach you are skewing your car a lot to one end of the performance echelon.

      plus I don’t think you can make the S54 to be reliable at 9.5k rpm. And if possible, you are in for a hell of a lot of tuning and development, but if you have the resources, the idea is epic!

      Comment


        #4
        Don't screw with it if you are going to track it. The engine (and the car) doesn't need anything to be perfect at an HPDE. Its the driver that needs development.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Estoril View Post
          Don't screw with it if you are going to track it. The engine (and the car) doesn't need anything to be perfect at an HPDE. Its the driver that needs development.
          This, get pads, brake fluid upgrade, oil cooler, sway bars, e85 (for cooling).

          Comment


            #6
            NA is the expensive way to go slow.

            To do it right, would require an entire rebuild of the engine, addressing all parts of the rotating assembly... lightening pistons, rods, and crank, forged internals, bigger cams, stronger valve springs, headwork, intake, exhaust... it's a lot.

            Turbocharging will be far cheaper, with greater results.

            That being said, I can't stand turbo charged cars, they have no soul. My E46 is supercharged, which I feel gives the best of both worlds... high revs and no turbo lag, but it pulls hard at high RPMs. (Some would argue that it's actually the worst of both worlds, but that's an argument for another day)


            Ultimately it's up to you and your checkbook. If money was no option, I would love to build a fully built S54 with velocity stacks. Big cams, custom header, revs to 9K RPMS... The problem is the most I've ever seen is around 350whp, and you're talking big bucks to get there. I just don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.
            2004 Dinan S3-R M3
            2023 X3M Competition

            Comment


              #7
              Is this a belated April fools post? Reliable 9.5k rpm S54? Turbochargers with the sharp, connected feel of the s54??

              Most people cannot out drive a stock e46 m3, and making much more power on a NA s54 just isn't feasible anyway. Losing weight makes more sense.

              If you really want to go fast, just go buy a Corvette. By the time you spend the easy 10k+ to do either of those things you suggest, you're well on your way to affording a C5 Z06 that will still blow any e46 away.

              Bimmerforums is the preferred online BMW Forum and community for BMW owners. At Bimmerforums, you will find technical how-to information maintenance specifics audio advice wheel and tire combinations and model specific details not found anywhere else. Our professionals are here to help make sure you find the answers you need to your questions and our community is here to help other brainstorm ideas for the future.


              Apparently the race cars didn't need that RPM to meet the power. But that's not reliable anyhow.
              Last edited by 01SG; 04-08-2025, 08:01 AM.

              Comment


                #8
                This question has been asked 329830 times here and answers are always kinda the same. You can't have a road car with road manners and great on track (depends what you deem as good road/track car).

                NA imo is the way. To get the absolute best experience of the car, distill it all down to the chassis and engine. Rebuild the S54, I'd do 12:1 pistons, lighter rods, rebalanced crank, new OEM springs and retainers, PTB racing 9.5kg flywheel and clutch package, 550cc injectors, cams, KARB race box, SS v1 dual exhaust. All that is the heart and the catalyst of the emotion that comes from the car. I've done everything (some things twice) except the internal stuff. There are few engines that are as emotive as the S54.

                To max it all you have to do chassis work. Rigidity improvements, look at SLON front bar, rear wall, Yurkan brace, raised subframe bushings. I want a cup car for the road with interior, so I'd get MRT engineering front race axle pack, rear bushings for geometry etc etc. Lighten everything within reason, lightness turns everything up to 11.

                9,500 RPM has not been done by anyone, the only 9k rpm S54 I know of is in one of the Lebanese hill climb cars that was de-stroked to 3.0L and claimed 500bhp with VAC as a sponsor, think what you will of that ( X for doubt ).

                TLDR - Do it
                2006 Silber Grau Metalizat ZCP 6 MT
                M-texture (F2AT) - Turner CSL V2/CatCams 280 272/SSv1/SS Sec1/Sec2 dual res/SCZA TI (raw) - FatCat stage 3 ult 400f/784r - Vorshlag - EC7r 18x9.5 ET35/CRS 275/35/18 - RacingBrake BBK/MileEnd CSL bumper/Vorsteiner Trunk/Cobra Nogaro Circuit Mtexture/GC RCA/YURKan Cages/Hotchkiss/Vibra-technics/

                IG: https://www.instagram.com/htrlo/

                Comment


                  #9
                  Sell the S54 and do a turbocharged K series.
                  http://www.natehasslerphoto.com
                  '99 M3, Hellrot/Sand Beige, slicktop
                  '01 M3, Imola/black

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Estoril View Post
                    Don't screw with it if you are going to track it. The engine (and the car) doesn't need anything to be perfect at an HPDE. Its the driver that needs development.
                    Originally posted by 01SG
                    Most people cannot out drive a stock e46 m3
                    ​Here are the 2 best answers.

                    Take the money refresh the suspension if it needs it and hit up an autocross.




                    That said i SC'd my E36 M3 but got bored of the power quick and wish I went turbo. Sold the SC setup after a couple years and went NA but left the Shricks, changed the injectors, and other minor stuff and as it sits now in its NA state is the most fun the car has ever been in the 17 years I've owned it and all the stages its gone through.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I'm supercharged but not a track guy so heat soak isn't really a day to day concern.

                      If I wanted to go turbo I'd sell the M3 and buy a Cayman 718 with the 2.0T. A shade over 3000lbs and with a few modifications it would be super fun, plus it isn't too terribly expensive.
                      3.91 | CMP Subframe & RTAB Bushings | SMG (Relocated & Rebuilt) | ESS Gen 3 Supercharger | Redish | Beisan | GC Coilovers & ARCAs | Imola Interior | RE Rasp | RE Diablo | Storm Motorwerks Paddles | Will ZCPM3 Shift Knob | Apex ARC-8 19x9, 19x9.5 | Sony XAV-AX5000 | BAVSOUND | CSL & 255 SMG Upgrades | Tiag | Vert w/Hardtop

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I’ve thought about this a lot over my 15 years of ownership. My two cents: if you're going N/A, choose whatever build is the most drivable. If you’re going turbo, based on conversations with several builders, I’d recommend a small turbo with 7-8 lbs of boost to avoid lag. This setup should produce around 450-500 hp.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I have a turbo E36 M3 (stg1, 350whp) and a 3.4L stroked E46 M3 (390whp), and I used to have an S/C'd E46 M3 with over 600whp. If you want boost, just get an F8x. Seriously. Great car and you'll get way more out of it for far less than converting an n/a car into a turbo one. I've had fun with my E36 along the way but the S52 was pretty gutless to begin with and nowhere near as satisfying as the S54 out of the box. That being said, I am returning it back to stock if that tells you something... a big boosted M will not be the same car you first fell in love with, and at that point there are better platforms with less compromises to get 500hp.

                          To get 9500+ out of an S54 you'll have to destroke it and make up the power with other mods. In essence you'll be spending a bunch of money to go in a circle. The RPM 'gains' are pointless, all it does is give you bragging rights and wear the motor out faster. This sounds like a rainy day project/pipe dream at best so the ideal use-case is to leave the motor stock-ish, fortify it for track use and take weight out of the car. You have to ask yourself why are you trying to reinvent the wheel over what you already have? You're already in the sweet spot as far as N/A goes.
                          Last edited by jvit27; 04-08-2025, 01:49 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            14th year of ownership with my e46 m3 and like some here we think about the potential of the 3.2L. To me M cars compared to other brands of the same generation reminds me of "The little engine that could"..... "no replacement for displacement" some go with boost.
                            I agree with if you want boost/big power go f8x.
                            If you want peak rpm NA hp I'd say build up the s65 IMO.​

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by jvit27 View Post
                              I have a turbo E36 M3 (stg1, 350whp) and a 3.4L stroked E46 M3 (390whp), and I used to have an S/C'd E46 M3 with over 600whp. If you want boost, just get an F8x. Seriously. Great car and you'll get way more out of it for far less than converting an n/a car into a turbo one. I've had fun with my E36 along the way but the S52 was pretty gutless to begin with and nowhere near as satisfying as the S54 out of the box. That being said, I am returning it back to stock if that tells you something... a big boosted M will not be the same car you first fell in love with, and at that point there are better platforms with less compromises to get 500hp.

                              To get 9500+ out of an S54 you'll have to destroke it and make up the power with other mods. In essence you'll be spending a bunch of money to go in a circle. The RPM 'gains' are pointless, all it does is give you bragging rights and wear the motor out faster. This sounds like a rainy day project/pipe dream at best so the ideal use-case is to leave the motor stock-ish, fortify it for track use and take weight out of the car. You have to ask yourself why are you trying to reinvent the wheel over what you already have? You're already in the sweet spot as far as N/A goes.
                              Why are you returning the S52 turbo to stock?
                              http://www.natehasslerphoto.com
                              '99 M3, Hellrot/Sand Beige, slicktop
                              '01 M3, Imola/black

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X