288/280 vs 280/272 cams.

[digger]

guys, more useable rpm then shorten the rear end ratio

[EthanolTurbo]

I don't think you got the point we have with Ethanol, point is not to compare them
at all. For street use in SoCal on spirited driving in town it won't matter which one
corners better..E46M3 or E39M5. But the M3 would benefit from Stroking the engine
for sure or even a swap.

Remember large % M3 owners complain is from 1000-4700rpm and around town
one is 95%+ in that range of rpm's.

On top when one puts cams, larger exhaust, box etc to chase the HPs up top the
bottom is compromised little bit and this is were stroke comes to play.

E39M5 is the way around. Its all the TQ in the world from Idle up to about 4600rpm
and after that the Oil pan starts to scrape the asphalt...and why E39M5 people don't
like S65...S65 is a track engine not a Diesel engine characteristics for the street
comfort. What can be done with S62 is completely different story but not in a stock
form...

Regards,
Anri

S65 is a bigger S54 in my eyes and the way it feels. Powerband is exactly the same. And both cars are way too heavy in stock form. Would be pretty sick to have those motors in a 2600 lb car like @bigjae's E46.

Weight is the only thing holding these motors back IMO. Can only imagine how badass the S54 would be in an NA1 NSX with weight reduction.

S62 does feel like a diesel motor but reminds me of a small LSx with headers, tune revving out to 7300 RPM. The E90 M3 would be so much better with an S62.

[Anri]

it's an unfair comparison between the two

I don't think you got the point we have with Ethanol, point is not to compare them
at all. For street use in SoCal on spirited driving in town it won't matter which one
corners better..E46M3 or E39M5. But the M3 would benefit from Stroking the engine
for sure or even a swap.

Remember large % M3 owners complain is from 1000-4700rpm and around town
one is 95%+ in that range of rpm's.

On top when one puts cams, larger exhaust, box etc to chase the HPs up top the
bottom is compromised little bit and this is were stroke comes to play.

E39M5 is the way around. Its all the TQ in the world from Idle up to about 4600rpm
and after that the Oil pan starts to scrape the asphalt...and why E39M5 people don't
like S65...S65 is a track engine not a Diesel engine characteristics for the street
comfort. What can be done with S62 is completely different story but not in a stock
form...

Regards,
Anri

[EthanolTurbo]

So as long as the rockers are in good condition - no flat spots - I can reuse them with 280/272?



Stock injectors?



At full weight an S54 does feel gutless. At 2640lbs it pins you back in the seat. Its an S54 in an NA MIata!

They're a Bosch injector, pretty cheap. And no, you can't reuse the rocker arms as far as I know. All the followers need to be new and they're also on backorder everywhere so it's expensive and a waiting game for cams currently.

[duracellttu]

So as long as the rockers are in good condition - no flat spots - I can reuse them with 280/272?



Stock injectors?



At full weight an S54 does feel gutless. At 2640lbs it pins you back in the seat. Its an S54 in an NA MIata!

He mentioned 550cc injectors in his post.

Very curious to see his dyno results!

[duracellttu]

Knowing your other toys is why you feel this way ?

When I drive E39M5 for a week or the E60M5.
and then you hop into 3.246cc its hard to adjust..

I always have this problem driving powerful cars and
then back into to inline-6 it feels like its M10 4cyl engine..
gutless...

Regards,
Anri

I also have an e39 M5, which is my DD. IMO, it's an unfair comparison between the two. Of course the S62 is going to have more power, but the e39 chassis is heavy in turns. The S54 might have less torque but the e46 chassis is much more agile. They are just different beasts and both have pros/cons which's is why we have both

[bigjae46]

So as long as the rockers are in good condition - no flat spots - I can reuse them with 280/272?

550cc is fine. I'm about to go dyno at EAS on Tuesday with my 280/272s and 550cc so I'll post that in the dyno thread. Car feels crazy strong and really smooth. And sounds mean as hell.

Stock injectors?

I always have this problem driving powerful cars and
then back into to inline-6 it feels like its M10 4cyl engine..
gutless...

At full weight an S54 does feel gutless. At 2640lbs it pins you back in the seat. Its an S54 in an NA MIata!

[EthanolTurbo]

What is the consensus on needing bigger fuel injectors for 280/272? I still have my 550cc injectors installed and planned to keep them.

550cc is fine. I'm about to go dyno at EAS on Tuesday with my 280/272s and 550cc so I'll post that in the dyno thread. Car feels crazy strong and really smooth. And sounds mean as hell.

[EthanolTurbo]

Knowing your other toys is why you feel this way ?

When I drive E39M5 for a week or the E60M5.
and then you hop into 3.246cc its hard to adjust..

I always have this problem driving powerful cars and
then back into to inline-6 it feels like its M10 4cyl engine..
gutless...

Regards,
Anri

Yes, EXACTLY lol. It starts feeling like a 4 cylinder down low. But the more weight I remove, the more bearable it becomes. 😅

[Anri]

I honestly would hate it if the S54 became any weaker down low. As much as I've tried to combat that (gears, lightweight mods, lightweight tires and wheels), this engine's weakest point is the anemic low end.

Knowing your other toys is why you feel this way ?

When I drive E39M5 for a week or the E60M5.
and then you hop into 3.246cc its hard to adjust..

I always have this problem driving powerful cars and
then back into to inline-6 it feels like its M10 4cyl engine..
gutless...

Regards,
Anri

[duracellttu]

This was my thoughts as well. 280/272 seems to have the wide usable powerband of stock cams but with more power over 6k so it's the best of all worlds. I honestly would hate it if the S54 became any weaker down low. As much as I've tried to combat that (gears, lightweight mods, lightweight tires and wheels), this engine's weakest point is the anemic low end.

What is the consensus on needing bigger fuel injectors for 280/272? I still have my 550cc injectors installed and planned to keep them.

[EthanolTurbo]

During my original build I want to make big numbers on the dyno and squeeze all the power I could out of the engine. Since this is a street car and not a track car I'm not going to driving at red line very often. I've decided to change cam sizes to shift the power lower in the rpm band, which is more suitable for street driving.

Honestly from all the dyno chart I've seen, the peak power at redline different between the two cam sizes isn't drastically different.

Interested to hear others opinions.

This was my thoughts as well. 280/272 seems to have the wide usable powerband of stock cams but with more power over 6k so it's the best of all worlds. I honestly would hate it if the S54 became any weaker down low. As much as I've tried to combat that (gears, lightweight mods, lightweight tires and wheels), this engine's weakest point is the anemic low end.

[duracellttu]

Reason / thoughts re: switch from 288/280 to 280/272? Thx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

During my original build I want to make big numbers on the dyno and squeeze all the power I could out of the engine. Since this is a street car and not a track car I'm not going to driving at red line very often. I've decided to change cam sizes to shift the power lower in the rpm band, which is more suitable for street driving.

Honestly from all the dyno chart I've seen, the peak power at redline different between the two cam sizes isn't drastically different.

Interested to hear others opinions.

[empty]

Just wanted to follow up with these comments from a few years ago. Are these BMW DLC coated rockers still recommended with new Schrick cams? Looks like I'm going to need a full head rebuild and will likely replace the 288/280 with 280/272.

Reason / thoughts re: switch from 288/280 to 280/272? Thx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[duracellttu]

This should be big news...

Can anyone confirm the part number in question?

I've looked up the part numbers using RealOEM and then priced them. The E90 320is looks to be 11337549034 and is 48 Euros on the Leebmann site (@ $57 USD). The S54 rockers are part number 11337833259 and are around $55 USD in the US. Would hate to order them from Leebmann in Germany and find that they aren't the correct part...

Yeah they are known. Also used on the P54 engine. Basically identical to the stock S54 fingers, except have a DLC coating. No reason to spend big money on the Schricks while those are available.

Just wanted to follow up with these comments from a few years ago. Are these BMW DLC coated rockers still recommended with new Schrick cams? Looks like I'm going to need a full head rebuild and will likely replace the 288/280 with 280/272.