E46 vs E90, a decision to replace my ZHP

[clayton8or]

From a driving perspective, I wouldn't put the M3/S54 on a pedestal. A 330i with a 6 speed and M3 rear diff is really good. The entire thing can be done for only $1k or so on top of a subframe job. The front end is lighter on a M54 car as well so they drive "better" IMO. If you want an S54 and the M3 look, that's a different thing tho.

Just my 2c.

Too slow, and like only 20% of the intake noise. I've been beyond the capabilities of my car for years now. Its kinda an understeery pig under 45 and has no dynamics with the throttle above that speed. Im at -3deg front -2 rear camber and square tires too.

[clayton8or]

I've owned an E46 since 2003 (330Ci, M3) and an E90 M3 since 2011. As Obioban said, the E9X is a decided split from some BMW norms in not so obvious ways. The E9X M3 is the first BMW I would consider slightly overpowered and has a far more modern suspension whereas the E46 is the last run of the same wishbone front control arm and rear trailing arm design.

The complaints about the weight make no sense. I've driven both and it is very difficult to sense the weight difference until the tire and brake bill comes due. That's the only time I've really noticed anything. The E46 M3 has a more nimble front end but E9X M3 is a different kind of nimble. You drive the car with your right foot on the gas and it is WAY more fun! I could get the point that the E9X M3 feels heavier if it is never overdriven.

The E46 will cost a lot more on maintenance and upkeep BUT is much easier to work on. The E9X M3 has far fewer issues especially with the non-manual transmission. The E9X M3 bugaboos - rod bearings, VANOS caps, throttle actuators, and the F*%!CKING CUPHOLDERS!!! The only bushings/mounts I've had to replace are the engine mounts. Suspension components are far more durable.

The E46 has a nicer interior that falls apart a lot faster. Both have leather seats that is an ice rink for your ass...just slide everywhere! The E9X has more of a sterile feel.

Daily driving it is hard to beat an E90 M3 DCT. I've been daily driving mine for 15 years. There is a cost. It feels most special when pushing the car.

It is hard to beat the feel of just sitting in an E46. The S54 with a CSL intake is hard to beat for normal driving.

I think it is easier for most to fall in love with the E46 M3. Sometimes - the issues like the VANOS - and the effort required to solve them is what builds the relationship.

I've noticed the issues, but the S65 seems to have some unknowns currently, including the mention by Partee that the mains might be going bad more often due to a lack of oil pressure from the higher clearance BE bearings used to address the rod bearing deal. They mentioned an overdriven oil pump could fix this, but there has been very little testing i've seen for this.
Seats i plan on changing as soon as the car is reliable. (IE: All deferred maintenance, Vincebar / repair, VANOS, Rod bearings, possibly head gasket? been hearing mixed things on that)
Im not sure, i guess i do have to drive them... ill try to find stuff for sale around me. Real hard for even E92's ignoring the sedan just for testing driving dynamics.

[clayton8or]

Same with the X5D. They're mostly all old and higher mileage now, and the removal of the emissions system is just part of the maintenance. You have to do a lot of work while you're in there. Easily a $3500-5000+ job at a shop.

If i had to bring my cars to another person to fix/modify them i'd own a honda.

[clayton8or]

You could probably improve that throttle responsiveness with messing with the DME. Hacking sport mode onto my ZHP did wonders, and a similar hack is feasible on those N52 DMEs (which should be able to respond faster than an M54 if the software lets it).

Though you're pretty much never going to beat an S54 or S65 in terms of throttle response.

Im pretty sure the N52 thing is a mechanical limitation with the speed of the valvetronic motor. Since "opening the throttle" involves spinning up the mechanism, that consists of a worm gear, fully closed to fully open and vice versa, My theory is that the motor (made for torque) does not spin fast enough to act like a throttle plate in a normal engine, which can move basically as fast as your foot.

This is the only explanation that would cause a tuned car like the E90 i drove, with no throttle body, to behave as laggy as it did, to include continuing to accelerate after letting off the throttle, which is unacceptable.

I noticed on my X3 (which is a manual) if the rpm is DECREASING (off throttle entirely) it will take a noticable amount of time for the rpm to stop, turn around, and then increase again, but once it does it revs very fast, indicating it is not an issue of a heavy flywheel, and this "issue" occurs at all RPMs, it will take a long time to rev up even at 6k, if you've just let off from redline.

[oceansize]

I'm not buying an e9x M3. I'd buy a GT350 (or even a Mach 1 HP in manual). Its better where it matters, fun factor. Its an extremely engaging car from behind the drivers seat. Which leaves an e46 m3 as the only choice. Its the best, but I'm biased obviously.

[dreamdrivedrift]

N52 cars I understand where you are coming from. The throttle response is just not acceptable especially compared to a cable throttle car like S2000. Would write it off your list.

So you are at E46 M3, E90 M3, or S2000
I understand the desire and share it wholly
All great in their own right
All 3 have engines that if blown - will be very expensive.
Buy best example you can

S2000 - Beautiful, simple and refreshing design. The best drivers car of the 3. The most engaging, by far, from chassis and response perspective. It is dynamic at every speed - few chassis rotate like this car does. Sucks with the top up or hardtop. Rattly interior. Lots of drone. The worst daily least comfortable and least practical. Will teach you to be a better driver. If you haven't driven one you may find it frustrating initially coming from BMWs. You need to have finesse to drive one fast. Cheapest to run.
E90 M3 - Best daily. Most practical. Still fun. Probably cheaper to own over long run than E46. Surprisingly reliable.
E46 M3 - the classic. Prettier than the E9X. Delivers the I6 experience, classic BMW interior, and that BMW balance. Nothing like CSL intake on S54 IMO. McLaren F1 vibes. Coupe limits functionality if routinely using back seats. Maintenance hog.

Seems like your decision will mostly be dictated by use case, budget, and time. These are pretty different cars.