E46 vs E90, a decision to replace my ZHP

[clayton8or]

Hello NA///M3 forum. First time poster, long time lurker. I have owned my 2004 330i ZHP for almost 6 years now, longest of any of the 21 cars ive owned by far. Ive 2 other cheap auto e46's and an e83 as winter projects to keep the ZHP rust free. I've taken apart almost everything on the car except the transmission and HVAC. Short list is rebuilt engine for experimental upgrades (the valves of which ended up dropping in 10k miles, story for another day). Diff, Interior stuff, Suspension, brakes, all maintenance. The car has 219k miles on it currently and i've always thought about S54 swapping and basically "M3-ifying" it, but after realizing i'd basically have to replace the whole car for what i truly want, and even trying to imagine it through the lens of previously swapped sedans, i just don't think its as cool and unique as a touring, or as pure and beautiful as an M3.
Simultaneously, I've been saving for and researching everything i can possibly learn about the E90 M3 (Prefer E90 over E92). All its characteristics, flaws, fixes, and upgrades. Similarly with the E46 M3 recently, as some sort of alternative, depending on the "purpose" of the car. While i have a lot of experience with the e46 as a chassis, I still have never driven an M3, and im mostly concerned about the shift quality of the 420G. Some people say its not as nice as my ZF, and some people say even the E90's ZF sucks too, but i have no way of knowing and words on the internet can only portray so much, as even tastes between individual's idea of "the ideal" shift feel.
The even larger version of this problem, is the fact that i have virtually no experience with the E90 platform, and have never driven an E9X M3 either. I truly do not know which i would prefer, and i don't really know how i should find out. I don't know anyone with one, and i don't know how to like, ask some stranger to drive their prized possession lol, even for a few bucks. Maybe pretending to be interested in buying one locally for sale, but that just seems cheap.
If anyone has any ideas for this let me know, im pretty stuck reading the forums over and over on repeat for a car i can't even buy yet. I don't even know what to do with mine.

The plan changed from "definitely E90" to "possibly E46" due to the decision to buy an E70 X5D as a dedicated daily. I haven't bought one yet, but that would allow me to not focus on trying to "dual duty" the M3 and compromise it against what it should be good at, which is driving hard.
I think i just need to drive them, then ill finally have some context for all of my endless thoughts that roam my mind and make me lose track of time daily. Attached are some of my ZHP pics. Thank you for reading.

[xansabi]

LOL it's so funny I've been seeing so many people with an E70 X5D daily and E46 M3 lately. I think that might be the sweet spot. @pardnm3 on Instagram has that and I think EthanolTurbo either has an X5D/owned an X5D/owns an M57.

[EthanolTurbo]

LOL it's so funny I've been seeing so many people with an E70 X5D daily and E46 M3 lately. I think that might be the sweet spot. @pardnm3 on Instagram has that and I think EthanolTurbo either has an X5D/owned an X5D/owns an M57.

I had an E70 X5D for 40k miles, an F15 X5D, and currently own 2x 335d's + F31 M Sport wagon, I can share a little bit about my experiences.

E70 X5D is one of my favorite daily drivers ever, and definitely a contender for best SUV ever. That being said, USDM M57's have horrible emissions systems and are maintenance hogs if they have deferred/neglected maintenance.

If you plan to buy one, find the nicest, most highly optioned (very important, base models suck) and lowest mileage one you can. Drive it stock for a bit and plan to spend $3-5k on tune/delete/while you're in there stuff like harmonic balancer, all the vacuum lines, etc. You will also have to service the transmission and do the xHP Stage 2/3 tune ideally. If you want to be extra, you can swap the stock front/rear diff from stock 3.64 final drive to 3.15 from the gasser E70's, it's a direct fit.

That being said, it will easily avg 25+ mpg combined, tows up to 8800 lbs with Euro hitch, runs 12's in the 1/4 mile with the right mods and with 3rd row seats 7 people. It is a do it all SUV in every sense of the word.

[Tbonem3]

I have both e46 m3 and e90m3 so if you have any specific questions, you can pm me.

Generally speaking, the e9x is more serious and capable, but e46 is more "fun" to drive, prettier, greatest era imo, more fun to wrench on, good mpg versus awful.

[clayton8or]

I have both e46 m3 and e90m3 so if you have any specific questions, you can pm me.

Generally speaking, the e9x is more serious and capable, but e46 is more "fun" to drive, prettier, greatest era imo, more fun to wrench on, good mpg versus awful.

I appreciate that, I've been scrolling through your IG gawking at your basically perfect cars lol, If you feel like it could you collect some pics you have of them side by side for like a size/proportion comparison between them? I saw like one good one from you w/ that but its so hard to find in general on the internet surprisingly.

[clayton8or]

I had an E70 X5D for 40k miles, an F15 X5D, and currently own 2x 335d's + F31 M Sport wagon, I can share a little bit about my experiences.

E70 X5D is one of my favorite daily drivers ever, and definitely a contender for best SUV ever. That being said, USDM M57's have horrible emissions systems and are maintenance hogs if they have deferred/neglected maintenance.

If you plan to buy one, find the nicest, most highly optioned (very important, base models suck) and lowest mileage one you can. Drive it stock for a bit and plan to spend $3-5k on tune/delete/while you're in there stuff like harmonic balancer, all the vacuum lines, etc. You will also have to service the transmission and do the xHP Stage 2/3 tune ideally. If you want to be extra, you can swap the stock front/rear diff from stock 3.64 final drive to 3.15 from the gasser E70's, it's a direct fit.

That being said, it will easily avg 25+ mpg combined, tows up to 8800 lbs with Euro hitch, runs 12's in the 1/4 mile with the right mods and with 3rd row seats 7 people. It is a do it all SUV in every sense of the word.

Thanks for the insight, My state no longer requires inspections, so im planning on making it a bit less restrictive... Also i have seen xHP, definitely happening, and probably xdelete too. Interesting point on the diffs, I was wondering if it would be a bit short geared just from lack of RPM, but I'm surprised it would be lower than a gasser.

[Obioban]

I have both e46 m3 and e90m3 so if you have any specific questions, you can pm me.

Generally speaking, the e9x is more serious and capable, but e46 is more "fun" to drive, prettier, greatest era imo, more fun to wrench on, good mpg versus awful.

This is pretty much exactly correct.

e9X and e46 M3s are fairly shockingly different experiences. Which is "better" depends on what you're for, and what other cars (if any) you have on hand. If you have a comfortable/practical alternate (like your X5D), the balance gets pushed pretty dramatically towards e46 IMO.

[xansabi]

This is pretty much exactly correct.

e9X and e46 M3s are fairly shockingly different experiences. Which is "better" depends on what you're for, and what other cars (if any) you have on hand. If you have a comfortable/practical alternate (like your X5D), the balance gets pushed pretty dramatically towards e46 IMO.

THIS!!!

[Sharocks]

The E90 M3 is a great car if it's your only fun car and you need 4 doors.

What's bad about it is fuel, maintenance, lack of torque, manual is pretty awful, gearing is terrible (going shorter doesn't solve this) and there isn't much headroom to mod.

The good, the S65 is glorious, steering is crazy overboosted so it's easy to live with, has modernish tech aka you can have Apple CarPlay and it doesn't look weird in it, fit and finish is pretty good.

Being that you have a ZHP, the correct choice IMHO is going into a sorted E46 M3.

The E9X platform other than E90 M3's is pretty much at the bottom of it's depreciation curve now, so you will be able to get one easier than finding a clean E46 M3 as of now.

[clayton8or]

The E90 M3 is a great car if it's your only fun car and you need 4 doors.

What's bad about it is fuel, maintenance, lack of torque, manual is pretty awful, gearing is terrible (going shorter doesn't solve this) and there isn't much headroom to mod.

The good, the S65 is glorious, steering is crazy overboosted so it's easy to live with, has modernish tech aka you can have Apple CarPlay and it doesn't look weird in it, fit and finish is pretty good.

Being that you have a ZHP, the correct choice IMHO is going into a sorted E46 M3.

The E9X platform other than E90 M3's is pretty much at the bottom of it's depreciation curve now, so you will be able to get one easier than finding a clean E46 M3 as of now.

You prefer the 420G to the E90's ZF? Have you also driven a non-m ZF6? Since that's the only comparison i have to go off of. I'm going to try to find a dealer listing for one to try and drive it, but honestly trying to find a good example between the produced 15k E46 manual coupes vs 3k E90 manuals or even adding the 10k SMG coupes for a couple grand less and just converting it... Much easier just glancing around the internet, and they're 10k cheaper on average.

[R60BBA]

clayton8or would echo the comments from Tbonem3 and Obioban on E46 M3 vs E90 M3.

Although it sounds like you would be better off writing up a list of potential replacement cars and then test driving them - you can arrange this at a BMW dealer or even an independent dealer which has stock (there’s nothing cheap about this).

Test driving will give you a better understanding of what you are after. You can only get so much from reading other owners’ experiences/opinions on an internet forum.

I’ll also add that if I were in your shoes and was after a four door BMW M car, then it would be an F80 M3.

The S65 is more visceral than the S55, but in every other department the F80 is a better car imo. It’s a very palatable one car solution which would also mean that you wouldn’t need the X5 either.

But ultimately this is something for you to figure out.

Good luck and keep us posted on your decision.

[Obioban]

clayton8or would echo the comments from Tbonem3 and Obioban on E46 M3 vs E90 M3.

Although it sounds like you would be better off writing up a list of potential replacement cars and then test driving them - you can arrange this at a BMW dealer or even an independent dealer which has stock (there’s nothing cheap about this).

Test driving will give you a better understanding of what you are after. You can only get so much from reading other owners’ experiences/opinions on an internet forum.

I’ll also add that if I were in your shoes and was after a four door BMW M car, then it would be an F80 M3.

The S65 is more visceral than the S55, but in every other department the F80 is a better car imo. It’s a very palatable one car solution which would also mean that you wouldn’t need the X5 either.

But ultimately this is something for you to figure out.

Good luck and keep us posted on your decision.

That does emphasize the importance of test driving. I have some e90 desire, sometimes. Never had any F80 desire, ever.

[tnord]

I have an F30 340 as my daily, and part of me wants an F80 as a daily instead so I get it.

If you didn't already have the X5 I'd tell you to give serious consideration to an e90 with the N52. I had one prior to my F30 and it was great. I'd still have it if it didn't get stuck in a serious hail storm. I don't know how much this translates to the M version, but I always felt like on my e90 you were driving the front of the car as opposed to the E46 you were driving the rear of the car. Could have been due to setup differences between the two however (e90 was on 255 square, my m3 is on 245/275).

The ZF 6 speed in that car was definitely better, and the N52 has a better top end than a M54. It looks like your ZHP was pretty well set up, but I still think the e90 N52 would be a nice little step up in performance, but maybe not in styling.

I admit I've never driven an e90m, but to me it comes down to the question of if you want the v8 and are willing to deal with the additional cost of living with the v8, or if you want the i6 because that's what BMW does, and the S54 is maybe the best they've ever produced.

[George Hill]

It sounds like you want your car but more "capable" on the back roads. With your mechanical experience the answer is easily to just S54 swap your sedan. If you are worried about the transmission then retain your current GS6-37 during the swap.

[Tbonem3]

It sounds like you want your car but more "capable" on the back roads. With your mechanical experience the answer is easily to just S54 swap your sedan. If you are worried about the transmission then retain your current GS6-37 during the swap.

I think, if done well enough, that could pay for itself down the line as a 4 door e46 m3 is probably pretty sought after on the marketplace.

Or just buy an E46 M3. I think you'll miss you ZHP a lot if you get an e90M.

Also, aren't equivalent E90Ms significantly more expensive than e46 m3?

clayton8or

Thank you for the kind words. As far as a side by side comparison, they're really just ships that pass in the night; that is, they're never together and with how busy life is for me nowadays, I don't see myslef doing something with both of them at the same time or whatever, just being honest. My IG content creating days are dwindling.