Ownership Experience of Old BMWs

[PSUEng]

I think this is a good point. Depending on what you want out of the platform; a driver, a garage ornament, or a restorable project, impacts how easy the ownership experience is. Primarily, I would want a driver example. Something that's relatively feasible to keep in good running condition, making reliability and availability/affordability of parts a factor, but I don't need to replace every bit and bob with an OE part. Somebody that wants to fully restore a car will have a harder time.

While I'm constantly trying to find little things to improve on my M3, it's definitely a cosmetically imperfect, not restored, driver. And I would be perfectly happy with a vintage BMW of similar condition.

Also, I got the same email from BMW about the new X5, and I'm also very glad we bought a 2025 when the moronic tariffs were announced.

I think the word that will start to become prevalent here is "preservation" and not in the "museum quality" sense. Rather, in situations where in the past a part might just be replaced, going forward, it's repaired/rebuilt. Like David's steering rack service, or rebuilding brake calipers, and so on. I personally think the electronics are going to get tricky, as those parts go NLA and repairability becomes difficult.

[Bimma360]

I think the word that will start to become prevalent here is "preservation" and not in the "museum quality" sense. Rather, in situations where in the past a part might just be replaced, going forward, it's repaired/rebuilt. Like David's steering rack service, or rebuilding brake calipers, and so on. I personally think the electronics are going to get tricky, as those parts go NLA and repairability becomes difficult.

Touché. Post a pic! Show these mofos a vintage BMW. Silver, mtech 2, stroker, alpina wheels? Do I remember that right?

[sapote]

E24/E28 are another model that are always catching my eye, but as they're even older I wonder what it's like to own one of those. At heart, I guess I'm just the last of the GenXers 80s/90s kid that wants to drive my car from the 80s listening to Depeche Mode and New Order.

I bought my first E9 Coupe' in 1987 -- 1974 3.0 CSi manual Midnight Blue, and a year later I bought an Automatic 1973 3.0CS Metallic Silver, which I sold really cheap in 1997 or around that time. Few years ago I stripped the CSi down to metal, got matching new paint but have not put all back together yet. I'm in SoCal so the cars are rust-free, but most of them gone due to rusted out.

[tnord]

E9s are cool, but they're 50 years old now. Where are you getting parts from? Does BMW Classic support it?

[sapote]

E9s are cool, but they're 50 years old now. Where are you getting parts from? Does BMW Classic support it?

I often find parts on ebay.

[tnord]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-bmw-540i-213/

this one has my attention. I think it's pretty close to an ideal spec and the seller seems to have done all the right things.

I went through this whole exercise 3-4 years ago when I bought my F30. I really wanted the M5, but thought for daily purposes, and so my wife could have a car to drive when I was wrenching on hers, I ended up with the 340 with ZF8HP. But if I remember correctly the S62 might have a higher cost of parts due to the M tax, but is built more robustly and has fewer issues than the M62. Both of them will last hundreds of thousands of miles if well cared for. Parts availability should also be better being a 540 instead of an M car.

The one I linked has high mileage, but at least the seller seems to have a good reputation on BaT and mechanically it seems ready for the next 100k. I would at least keep another vehicle for winter duty, so this one would stay in good condition. It would also look pretty sick in the garage with a 2003 M3 and a 2003 540 M Sport, one jet black and one black sapphire.

Although, I never actually set out to buy an M3 in the first place. What I was really after was a 4 door ZHP, and I kept trying to buy them but people wanted what I thought was silly money. I remember negotiating with one guy and I finally got annoyed and told him, "well if you want that kind of money why wouldn't I just go buy an M3?" He didn't budge. I bought the M3, and I'm glad I did.

I don't know the market well enough, but will these 540 M Sports be the same situation as the ZHP I was shopping over a decade ago? Will they want so much money for them I might as well just buy the M? This car is at $10k already with 3 days left, think it'll top $15k? Though I did see an M5 reach $25k last week but didn't meet reserve and an M5 selling for double an M Sport seems realistic.

[01SG]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-bmw-540i-213/

this one has my attention. I think it's pretty close to an ideal spec and the seller seems to have done all the right things.
...
I don't know the market well enough, but will these 540 M Sports be the same situation as the ZHP I was shopping over a decade ago? Will they want so much money for them I might as well just buy the M? This car is at $10k already with 3 days left, think it'll top $15k? Though I did see an M5 reach $25k last week but didn't meet reserve and an M5 selling for double an M Sport seems realistic.

I put about 60k miles on one. Fabulous car, but they really need an LSD. One tire fire all day long with that torque.

That one is just such high mileage though. Even with the timing chain stuff done, it's a lot of work with an old 5er. That said, they're fairly robust at the core. Mine survived the timing chain going-no bent valves, the expansion tank blowing on the freeway, and a whole lot of abuse to the Getrag. But working on it was really a major pain in the ass. I do not miss that one bit-bad memories from that picture of the engine all opened up.

Seems like the M-sport is no longer as much of a premium over the regular car now though. They've gone up a bit since I last checked...still, I loved the M-sport, that's the one I had, but like the 330/ZHP, the standard sport model with lower mileage is probably a better buy.

[tnord]

The M Sport isn’t much besides the M Tech II body kit iirc, but I do like the look much better. So performance/$ I’m sure the regular sport package is a better buy, but I’d say the M Sport is worth $1k+ premium.

Totally agree on the diff, that might be the one major upgrade I would make to the car (and an exhaust of course).

With regard to BMWs, I heard somebody say that you buy the owner, not the car. This owner seems to be a good one. I like the changes he made to the interior also. And I appreciate the pic with the valve covers off….almost no varnish so you know the oil has been changed on schedule.

[01SG]

The M Sport isn’t much besides the M Tech II body kit iirc, but I do like the look much better. So performance/$ I’m sure the regular sport package is a better buy, but I’d say the M Sport is worth $1k+ premium.

Totally agree on the diff, that might be the one major upgrade I would make to the car (and an exhaust of course).

With regard to BMWs, I heard somebody say that you buy the owner, not the car. This owner seems to be a good one. I like the changes he made to the interior also. And I appreciate the pic with the valve covers off….almost no varnish so you know the oil has been changed on schedule.

It certainly has had a lot done, and looks clean too. No rust, which killed mine.

There is more than just the looks, however minor: I believe it got M5 sway bars, M5 shocks/struts, and M5 springs or its own special spring. It certainly steered and handled better than a car that size had any right to. I would love to own another with an LSD.

If you can find it, Roundel wrote a great review of the car that listed all the changes back in 2003 entitled "Out With a Bang."

[Mustafa564]

I currently own a 2024 BMW X5, 06 e46 M3, and a E30. I been having the e30 and M3 for over 6 years. I would say the experience with owning older bmw isn’t really bad. But you must find a lower mileage well taken care of car first. Also do preventative maintenance and you must drive them. These cars tend to fall apart when they sit for long periods of time. Also work on them yourself. You will learn the in and outs of these cars.

[tnord]

It certainly has had a lot done, and looks clean too. No rust, which killed mine.

There is more than just the looks, however minor: I believe it got M5 sway bars, M5 shocks/struts, and M5 springs or its own special spring. It certainly steered and handled better than a car that size had any right to. I would love to own another with an LSD.

If you can find it, Roundel wrote a great review of the car that listed all the changes back in 2003 entitled "Out With a Bang."

EDIT; I'm an idiot and missed that this one is an automatic, but it's still a relevant data point that makes me think the BaT one isn't a terrible price. But maybe not much over what it's currently at.


here's another one with significantly fewer miles, but is listed at a $5k higher price, and doesn't have the black interior bits swapped in.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1569358588040043?ref=search&referral_code=null&ref erral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A5577d 63a-e1fe-4918-8317-25d4c926ecfa

EDIT2; https://www.bmwcca.org/classified-ads/336846

here's the low mileage all the maintenance pristine example, and this guy wants all the money - $21k. I could maybe talk myself into it for mid-teens, but also seems like a lot to pay when I'm looking for a driver rather than a garage ornament.

[samthejam]

I have almost put E46 M3 50k miles on my M3 in two years and it has been a rolling restoration, prior to that I still have it but its mostly retired is my E28.

Old BMWs have got me through all periods of my life, I've never had another car to get somewhere in a deadline, for a test, to a job interview, to my wedding etc. That 528e has got me through so many chapters of life.

I commonly joke about getting a prius or something when I get burnt out or overwhelmed which does happen probably annually. Tracking the cars makes my life a lot harder versus just dailying them alone.

It is a lot of work daily driving these cars, staying ahead of them. The E28 is a huge task hoarding and thinking ahead for critical items. Having a 40 year old car with working locks, hvac, cruise control radio and working sunroof has a lot of side quest attached to it. My E28 is almost entirely made up of other E28s and E24s. I have parted out cars in front of my rental house when I was in college, and to make sure I had cash flow and parts to keep doing track events.

I don't know if I romanticize it, but I also wouldn't do it any other way. I definitely never push or recommend the experience to anyone. I certainly can never imagine myself having a "normal" car as a daily driver. I understand why most people do that, but for me that would defeat the whole point of the "hobby".

I think it is unfortunate a lot of these cars are getting bought to fit an aesthetic or a fashion item and has really messed with the market. However, all sorts of strokes for different folks and leads to some examples being preserved so idk.

The E46 M3 compared to my E28 is so ungodly expensive to own if you get a poorly maintained example like I did and want to get OE parts. I am going to list 4 items here for it and all of original quality are like $500 each. Fuel pump, control arm(1), radiator, water pump. I just stated $2000 of what most would consider pretty normal parts, and the aftermarket for all these are questionable or not much cheaper. Want an axle? LOL

E28/E30/E24 are all very old and unless you are well connected with a hoarder locally or are very motivated to find harder to get stuff. If you find a really nice example would you want to hurt value stacking miles on it?

I do think the E46 330i while bland, is very cost effective if you are a heavy DIYer and still can give a very good driving experience. Junkyards are beginning to thin out a bit but still plenty out there. While M54s aren't expensive there is a lot of "maintenance" if buying one unknown.

E36s have terrible interiors but honestly I think still fit a great middle ground of being economical, cheap parts, well documented and being very fun to drive and tough as nails. E34s sort've fit in that boat as well. I think E36 and E34 demand finding well preserved examples, but once you have that mechanically speaking cheap, reliable and simple.

I cannot see owning a E39 and it not being a M5.

[Obioban]

I cannot see owning a E39 and it not being a M5.

Having owned an e39 M5 and e39 530i, the 530i is the better car in a lot of ways.
550 lbs lighter
rack and pinion steering
full size spare tire
twice the mpg/range
easier to work on, because more space under the hood.

540i is the car version I have zero desire to own. Combines the downsides of the M5 with the downsides of the 530i, as is less reliable than either.

... still planning to import a 2002-2003 M sport no sunroof 6 cylinder e39 and S54/6mt swap it. Feels like a car I could happily DD for the rest of my life.

I will say, of all the cars I've sold, the e39 M5 is the one I miss the most. Happy I got to own/drive it for 130,000 miles, but I miss it. But, the parts situation is SO MUCH worse than e46. Anything M5 specific has prices through the roof and almost never has OEM alternatives.

[tnord]

540i is the car version I have zero desire to own. Combines the downsides of the M5 with the downsides of the 530i, as is less reliable than either.


I will say, of all the cars I've sold, the e39 M5 is the one I miss the most. Happy I got to own/drive it for 130,000 miles, but I miss it. But, the parts situation is SO MUCH worse than e46. Anything M5 specific has prices through the roof and almost never has OEM alternatives.

Is that the downside of the M5/upside of the 540? Cost seems to be 1.5-2x to acquire one, and more than 2x for care and feeding. Of course there's the residual value to balance some of that out. My brain just can't get around the same engine for the 3 series being "enough" for the 5 series.

[Obioban]

Isn't that the downside of the M5/upside of the 540? Cost seems to be 1.5-2x to acquire one (compared to the best of breed 2003/6sp M Sport 540), and more than 2x for care and feeding. Of course there's the residual value to balance some of that out. And my brain just can't get around the same engine for the 3 series being "enough" for the 5 series.

the 175k mile BaT car I posted earlier seems to be selling for right at $15k as expected. Or at least it's at $14,500 with 30min left. I was thinking I'd pay low teens for it, but due to mileage it's gone past my tolerance.

225hp vs 282hp, but the 285 hp car is 300+ lbs heavier ~= 30hp in experience, so feels like a ~27 hp difference. But, it also drives 300+ lbs lighter, and the 6 cylinder cars have MUCH better steering than the V8 cars because of the R&P, and are easier to work on/more reliable/more efficient.

The 540i is worse for care and feeding than the M5, at least before the recent m5 parts pricing spike. The S62 is a more reliable engine than the M62, and the rest of the car is broadly the same.

I think the e39 530i is the best overall car BMW ever made. 3450 lbs, seats 4 adults in comfort (at least with the euro dash), full size spare, reliable, efficient, stiff chassis, great steering feel, great chassis feel, a nice amount of power for a slow car fast experience without being frustrating. I only don't have one at this moment because I'm waiting for my perfect spec to start hitting the 25 year import rule.