Ownership Experience of Old BMWs

[Bimma360]

225hp vs 282hp, but the 285 hp car is 300+ lbs heavier ~= 30hp in experience, so feels like a ~27 hp difference. But, it also drives 300+ lbs lighter, and the 6 cylinder cars have MUCH better steering than the V8 cars because of the R&P, and are easier to work on/more reliable/more efficient.

The 540i is worse for care and feeding than the M5, at least before the recent m5 parts pricing spike. The S62 is a more reliable engine than the M62, and the rest of the car is broadly the same.

I think the e39 530i is the best overall car BMW ever made. 3450 lbs, seats 4 adults in comfort (at least with the euro dash), full size spare, reliable, efficient, stiff chassis, great steering feel, great chassis feel, a nice amount of power for a slow car fast experience without being frustrating. I only don't have one at this moment because I'm waiting for my perfect spec to start hitting the 25 year import rule.

I have always wanted to experience living with an e39. Maybe this is the way to do it.

[tnord]

225hp vs 282hp, but the 285 hp car is 300+ lbs heavier ~= 30hp in experience, so feels like a ~27 hp difference. But, it also drives 300+ lbs lighter, and the 6 cylinder cars have MUCH better steering than the V8 cars because of the R&P, and are easier to work on/more reliable/more efficient.

The 540i is worse for care and feeding than the M5, at least before the recent m5 parts pricing spike. The S62 is a more reliable engine than the M62, and the rest of the car is broadly the same.

I think the e39 530i is the best overall car BMW ever made. 3450 lbs, seats 4 adults in comfort (at least with the euro dash), full size spare, reliable, efficient, stiff chassis, great steering feel, great chassis feel, a nice amount of power for a slow car fast experience without being frustrating. I only don't have one at this moment because I'm waiting for my perfect spec to start hitting the 25 year import rule.

that's helpful context, but I do think the 540 would feel faster in daily use than the 30hp difference might convey because of the extra 100 ft/lbs. plus v8 noises.

the 530 is much easier to buy though, as I feel like I can get about any clapped out example locally and bring the M54 back to life. The M62 though I think has to be bought from the right owner.

[Obioban]

that's helpful context, but I do think the 540 would feel faster in daily use than the 30hp difference might convey because of the extra 100 ft/lbs. plus v8 noises.

the 530 is much easier to buy though, as I feel like I can get about any clapped out example locally and bring the M54 back to life. The M62 though I think has to be bought from the right owner.

Probably.

My e39 M5 certainly felt faster than my e39 530i and made V8 sounds. I still found the 530i overall more enjoyable.

[EthanolTurbo]

Probably.

My e39 M5 certainly felt faster than my e39 530i and made V8 sounds. I still found the 530i overall more enjoyable.

I loved my 530i a lot as well. You can alao throw one of those old AA twin screw kits on if you can find it and that gives you E39 M5 power and torque with an NA powerband in a lighter E39 with better steering.

[tnord]

Holy crap! that 540 with 175k miles sold for $20k! If an M sport 530 manual can be had for $10k or less I'm on board with that being the better option.

I think I'd still prefer the 540, but not at a $10k premium. But the M5 is probably worth the $10k over the 540.

[BlueBimmers]

Fun conversation. I bought my E39 M5 in 2011 and my E46 M3 in 2014, so the prices I paid warm my heart today. Just lucky timing. I still paid over $20K in both cases to get good cars in solid condition with relatively low miles.

Before the M5 I also had a 530i sport and agree it was a fun and well balanced car. I turned it into a Canada M-Sport with M-tech bumpers front and rear and an exhaust. But I went with the siren call of the M5.

At the time I reasoned that if I was going to deal with a BMW V-8 I might as well get an additional +100HP. Hasn't given me much trouble over the years for an M car but I don't have a regular commute. The local CCA chapter has DIY events which have been a huge help, fun and money saving.

As noted, the M5 is actually easier to maintain than a 540. The comment is made in every single comment thread on BaT with an M Sport - "almost a M5 and much cheaper to own, rarer too!" I have to bite my tongue. M5 has beefed up cooling system, clutch, dual timing chains and the S62 runs much cooler. What was the original question again? 🙄

[bigjae46]

If you're committed to OEM parts...could be very painful.

Technology has made such advances with 3D scanners, printers, and fabrication not to mentioned cross-referencing, searches, and information available. I think any part can be made or repaired.

A goal of just enjoyment makes owning older BMWs very possible. Committing to a car with all original BMW parts or even off the shelf aftermarket parts? Going to be lots of waiting.

[Obioban]

If you're committed to OEM parts...could be very painful.

Technology has made such advances with 3D scanners, printers, and fabrication not to mentioned cross-referencing, searches, and information available. I think any part can be made or repaired.

A goal of just enjoyment makes owning older BMWs very possible. Committing to a car with all original BMW parts or even off the shelf aftermarket parts? Going to be lots of waiting.

Increasingly no point in OE parts as BMW’s suppliers have been moving production to China, too.

[tnord]

yeah I'm definitely not committed to OE parts. I am pretty committed to OE or "better" parts though, which makes things more challenging.

I bought mine probably somewhere near the bottom back in 2010 for $18k with 80k miles. That was kinda before the "big 3" was really much of a thing though. Biggest item I remember we all looked for was proof of valve adjustments, cooling system maintenance, FCAB, RTAB, guibo, and CSB replacement. I have taken care of all of those items plus the big 3 in my ownership up to 111k miles now. So it's definitely a better more valuable car now, but I don't think I've really made any money on it. It's probably worth what I have into it, which is just fine by me.

[01SG]

Holy crap! that 540 with 175k miles sold for $20k! If an M sport 530 manual can be had for $10k or less I'm on board with that being the better option.

I think I'd still prefer the 540, but not at a $10k premium. But the M5 is probably worth the $10k over the 540.

That is an insane outcome. It's a special car, but man...

A regular 540 can be had for that 10k less. I love both the 530/540, you can't go wrong, but the torque of that v8 is robust and effortless-it's more luxurious than winding out the six pot, and more entertaining. The steering box is still quite good. Depending on commute and condition, you can make a great case for either car. I'd say jump on whichever comes by in the right shape...

The 530i is certainly cheaper to own, but I also cannot imagine it costing quite as much as an M5. People always go on about the timing chain guides, but they can last - mine went at 212k miles. It is costly, but with the difference in cost of entry between a regular 540i6 sport and an M5, you'll never spend more-or even close, equal miles for equal miles-on the 540. Everything on the M5 costs as much or more, and the one exclusive major service for the chain guides won't negate the difference in purchase price.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-bmw-540i-55-2/

540i6 from a few months ago. 13k for 64k miles. What does a 64k mile M5 go for?

[Obioban]

That is an insane outcome. It's a special car, but man...

A regular 540 can be had for that 10k less. I love both the 530/540, you can't go wrong, but the torque of that v8 is robust and effortless-it's more luxurious than winding out the six pot, and more entertaining. The steering box is still quite good. Depending on commute and condition, you can make a great case for either car. I'd say jump on whichever comes by in the right shape...

The 530i is certainly cheaper to own, but I also cannot imagine it costing quite as much as an M5. People always go on about the timing chain guides, but they can last - mine went at 212k miles. It is costly, but with the difference in cost of entry between a regular 540i6 sport and an M5, you'll never spend more-or even close, equal miles for equal miles-on the 540. Everything on the M5 costs as much or more, and the one exclusive major service for the chain guides won't negate the difference in purchase price.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-bmw-540i-55-2/

540i6 from a few months ago. 13k for 64k miles. What does a 64k mile M5 go for?

What will a 64k M5 be worth in 10 years?

Bought my e39 M5 for 5K (had some electronic issues when I bought it, that I fixed), sold it 130,000 miles later for 32k :P

[MTiz]

Can I say something without y'all killing me? I have no desire to own anything older than an E46 (25 years old now btw). E46 M3's are still quick enough to feel exciting, the interior is acceptable, MPG when you drive like a normal person is acceptable (I averaged over 400 miles a tank on road trips), and they just don't feel super old. I'd throw the E39 M5 specifically in this category as well.

I've driven a ton of the older stuff-- E28's, E34 540i 6-Spd M sport, E39 540i, LOTS of E30's stock and turbo'd, E36's M and non-M, etc. Not gonna lie boys they just feel like old cars lol, nothing particularly exciting or to write home about. The E34 540i6 I drove made great noises but is slower than an E46 and steering box is no fun. E28's, E30's, and e36's are genuinely just very slow and not fun.

And I'm not comparing them to modern cars, I'm saying even 20 years ago I feel like these were considered slow cars lol. Given how maintaining something that's 30 to 40 years old is damn near a full time job on its own, I'm very much content with watching everyone else own these classic cars from the sidelines. Maybe e46 ownership has traumatized me?

[Obioban]

Can I say something without y'all killing me? I have no desire to own anything older than an E46 (25 years old now btw). E46 M3's are still quick enough to feel exciting, the interior is acceptable, MPG when you drive like a normal person is acceptable (I averaged over 400 miles a tank on road trips), and they just don't feel super old. I'd throw the E39 M5 specifically in this category as well.

I've driven a ton of the older stuff-- E28's, E34 540i 6-Spd M sport, E39 540i, LOTS of E30's stock and turbo'd, E36's M and non-M, etc. Not gonna lie boys they just feel like old cars lol, nothing particularly exciting or to write home about. The E34 540i6 I drove made great noises but is slower than an E46 and steering box is no fun. E28's, E30's, and e36's are genuinely just very slow and not fun.

And I'm not comparing them to modern cars, I'm saying even 20 years ago I feel like these were considered slow cars lol. Given how maintaining something that's 30 to 40 years old is damn near a full time job on its own, I'm very much content with watching everyone else own these classic cars from the sidelines. Maybe e46 ownership has traumatized me?

I've long wanted to build a F20C powered 2002.
a) I don't fit in an S2000, at least with the roof closed.
b) F20C in a car that's 600 lbs lighter sounds... spicy
c) could still fit wife/kid/dog

That's about the extent of my older than e39/e46 desires.