Ownership Experience of Old BMWs

[oceansize]

Don't mean to drag this too off topic but just a question.

I need a new daily that can handle bitter winters/snow, currently have a WJ Jeep that probably won't last much longer.
I would like something kind of "fun" as a daily.

Would an E90 Auto/xDrive car with the N52 be a decent relible daily for harsh winters?

I have worked on them a fair bit, not too bad, one thing that worries me is parts prices going foward however.

Corolla GR, fun as can be in the snow. 300Hp/300 ft-lbs of torque, AWD. I daily a 2025 GR.

[ruffy dongles]

Corolla GR, fun as can be in the snow. 300Hp/300 ft-lbs of torque, AWD. I daily a 2025 GR.

2nd. Blast. Light, old school boosty, good shifter. Base spec w cloth seats.

[Obioban]

I owned an E60 in one form or another almost non-stop since 2005. They never gave me too much grief. Just like any other BMW - maintain and stay on top of them - and they will be reliable.

... I don't agree.

All of them are prone to flooding, if you don't routinely clean their gutters. This often totals them out.
All of them have fiber optic cabling running throughout the car that can cause all sorts of issues that are hard to diagnose.
All of them have unreliable first gen idrive that has likely failed at least once by now.
The N62 is probably the least reliable non M NA engine BMW has made?
The S85 is probably the least reliable NA engine BMW has made? Certainly in rev 1 or rev 2.
The N54 seem to be a constant pita for lots of people.
N52 is pretty great, so please ignore that it existed
The automatic trans overheats when driven hard (I've put two different cars into limp mode by overheating the trans)
The headlights can't have their lenses replaced, so you have to replace the entire housings when the get bad-- big bucks
And the aluminum body/chassis bits makes any crash repair hugely expensive, and insurance unusually high because of it

[dannyzabolotny]

To add my two cents to this discussion: E46 people still have it pretty good. Yes, some stuff is starting to go NLA and prices are going up, but it's still an easy-breezy time compared to the struggles in E34 and E28 land. I was a committed E34 guy, I've owned 11 of them and have a decent stash of spare parts as well as a community of parts hoarders to draw upon, but even then there's some stuff that you just can't get. The mechanical stuff largely still exists, though much of it is from aftermarket suppliers and a lot of the OEM stuff has become crap, so it's hit or miss on whether your new parts will actually be any good. Cosmetic stuff means buying used, whether from a junkyard, parts hoarder, or eBay.

I know a number of people that have sold their vintage BMW daily drivers or retired them from daily duty because the parts availability has dried up, that and most people eventually want some semblance of fuel economy, working AC, and a decent-sounding stereo, all of which are a rather tall order for an older BMW.

[dannyzabolotny]

... I don't agree.

All of them are prone to flooding, if you don't routinely clean their gutters. This often totals them out.
All of them have fiber optic cabling running throughout the car that can cause all sorts of issues that are hard to diagnose.
All of them have unreliable first gen idrive that has likely failed at least once by now.
The N62 is probably the least reliable non M NA engine BMW has made?
The S85 is probably the least reliable NA engine BMW has made? Certainly in rev 1 or rev 2.
The N54 seem to be a constant pita for lots of people.
N52 is pretty great, so please ignore that it existed
The automatic trans overheats when driven hard (I've put two different cars into limp mode by overheating the trans)
The headlights can't have their lenses replaced, so you have to replace the entire housings when the get bad-- big bucks
And the aluminum body/chassis bits makes any crash repair hugely expensive, and insurance unusually high because of it

That sums it up pretty nicely. The fiber optic audio system is an absolute nightmare to diagnose and repair when it fails, and the early iDrive is indeed crap, though there are a number of aftermarket replacements nowadays that can mitigate that somewhat.

Not to defend the N62 necessarily, but that motor will generally stay running in most cases, the timing chains and bottom end don't seem to fail. It will absolutely nickel and dime you to death though, with an endless variety of oil leaks from the valve covers, oil pans, alternator bracket gasket, timing covers, as well as the wonderful coolant crossover pipe/valley pan situation. There's a reason I don't see too many of them on the road anymore. The turbo BMW engines make all the NA engines look like Toyota engines in comparison, haha.

At least with the S85 in the E60 M5 it almost feels worth the pain for the sheer cool factor of having a V10 sedan that sounds awesome.

The N52's are generally stout but at that point why even bother with an E60 when you may as well get an E39 with an M54 that looks better and is generally more reliable while not being much slower.

[Nate047]

I kinda want an N52 e61 as a daily.

[tnord]

Well, at this time I'm going down the path of selling my F30 in exchange for an E39 (540 or 530, I'm not sure I feel strongly either way).

So if anyone has, or knows of, a good E39 for sale, or wants my F30 (track pack xdrive 8HP estoril blue w/59k miles), please email me [email protected]

[George Hill]

I have an E91 in process of getting back on the road and I am casually looking for an E61 to maybe one day swap an N62 into.

IMO the best all around car today for servicing, budget, reliability and fun is an E9x with an N52, even 6spd MSports are relatively cheap.

E39 is a solid choice if you need the size otherwise its hard to be an E46 sedan/touring. I'd definitely take an M54 over anything else but there isn't an option for a 6spd which is a huge bummer. Yes you can swap it, but its also going to be a decent amount of money to do that.

If you want a 540, buy that one that was linked previously. Price out a truly comprehensive timing chain job and if you are paying someone to do it I wouldn't be surprised if its getting closer to $10k. A 540/AT is super uninspiring so if you don't mind the clutch pedal I would 100% go that route.

Either way buy the nicest one you can afford, put miles on it and don't look back.

[tnord]

I want to say I can swing a timing chain job, and at one point in my life there's no doubt I could. But I'm getting further and further removed from that period and I know I'm not capable in the garage as I used to be.

I think someone sent me a receipt for a timing chain job that was more like $3750, but it may not have been as comprehensive as it should be. I've got an independent shop near me that I've been using for PITA jobs like oil pan gasket on our N55 X5, and I think their shop rate is only $125/hr.

[Circa Surviven]

I want to say I can swing a timing chain job, and at one point in my life there's no doubt I could. But I'm getting further and further removed from that period and I know I'm not capable in the garage as I used to be.

I think someone sent me a receipt for a timing chain job that was more like $3750, but it may not have been as comprehensive as it should be. I've got an independent shop near me that I've been using for PITA jobs like oil pan gasket on our N55 X5, and I think their shop rate is only $125/hr.

I've been watching the timing chain kit pricing in my FCP euro cart continue to climb. I think it was around $900-$1200 when I added it a year or so ago. Now those same kits are around $1800- $2200 depending on if you do the valley coolant pan etc. That doesn't include the $400 timing tool AND people who have done the timing chain guides have reported having Vanos rattle, so rebuilding the vanos units adds money and it doesn't look as straight forward as with the S54 motor. .

That's one thing I forgot to add in my previous post on here. Finding a balance with quality vs cost affective aftermarket parts has become essential (for me). The window regulator on a 2001 740i is literally $507. I found one on amazon for $60. Because it doesn't physically touch the road like tires, it was worth the gamble IMO. As long as I don't have to replace it 4x within my ownership I should come out ahead and spend that saved money elsewhere to keep it on the road!

[tnord]

I've been watching the timing chain kit pricing in my FCP euro cart continue to climb. I think it was around $900-$1200 when I added it a year or so ago. Now those same kits are around $1800- $2200 depending on if you do the valley coolant pan etc. That doesn't include the $400 timing tool AND people who have done the timing chain guides have reported having Vanos rattle, so rebuilding the vanos units adds money and it doesn't look as straight forward as with the S54 motor. .

That's one thing I forgot to add in my previous post on here. Finding a balance with quality vs cost affective aftermarket parts has become essential (for me). The window regulator on a 2001 740i is literally $507. I found one on amazon for $60. Because it doesn't physically touch the road like tires, it was worth the gamble IMO. As long as I don't have to replace it 4x within my ownership I should come out ahead and spend that saved money elsewhere to keep it on the road!

yikes. I haven't even looked at the current kit pricing, I'm pretty sure the parts on the receipt I saw were just under $700.

[George Hill]

I think someone sent me a receipt for a timing chain job that was more like $3750, but it may not have been as comprehensive as it should be. I've got an independent shop... I think their shop rate is only $125/hr.

The might as wells will get you, while its apart IMO you'd also want to replace:

• Waterpump
• Valve covers
• Vanos units
• Tenisoners/belts
• Valley pan
• Crankcase vent valve (backing plate)
• Radiator
• and the list goes on

This is where that job gets you, there is so much disassembled now is the time to replace all these items or you are going to be back in there paying double the labor. My base estimate has something like 40-45 different pn#s on it.

[dannyzabolotny]

The might as wells will get you, while its apart IMO you'd also want to replace:

• Waterpump
• Valve covers
• Vanos units
• Tenisoners/belts
• Valley pan
• Crankcase vent valve (backing plate)
• Radiator
• and the list goes on

This is where that job gets you, there is so much disassembled now is the time to replace all these items or you are going to be back in there paying double the labor. My base estimate has something like 40-45 different pn#s on it.

The valve covers aren't strictly necessary to replace, I've had good success with getting them cleaned and powder coated professionally. Though I have seen people having decent luck with the aftermarket aluminum M62 valve covers, so that's an option too.

The Vanos units never really go bad, they just need the seals replaced with the Beisan Systems kit. It's a little bit of a finicky job but ultimately simpler than an S62/S54 Vanos job once you do a few of them.

I used to do these chain guide jobs at my shop regularly, it was like $2500 for all parts & labor and that wasn't including cooling system stuff which was addressed on a case-by-case basis. I remember I did like 60 of those M62 guide jobs and like 5 S62 guide jobs before I closed the shop. Strangely enough, I haven't done any of those in a while now. Seems like most cars with the M62 have either been scrapped or have had the guides done already at this point.

[tnord]

Good to hear about the VANOS. I rebuilt the vanos on the S54, so I should be able to handle the M62. Having watched Sreten do this job a while ago, I would imagine it would take me about a month over the winter to get it done. Doesn't seem like I could just knock it out in a weekend.

With the 540 it's going to have to have a good history. The 530 just give me a straight body and a good interior and I feel like I can basically fix anything else without much trouble.

[tnord]

I can't believe I'm considering this, but anyone in LA near Azusa want to look at an apparently nice E39 540? I'm still suspicious of these circumstances, but he's been sending me pictures of shop receipts including $7k for the timing chains and "while you're in there" items. Primary hesitation is it's a salvage title that he says he claimed during rains from this winter then found out it was just an alternator? Pretty suspect, but everything else checks out so far.

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