E92 vs e46

[e46IX]

I've owned both for the past 14 years. Performance - the E92 beats the pants off an E46. The front and rear suspension design is far superior, engine is a different animal and the DCT is WAY better than the SMG.

The E46 has a better interior. Not in terms of long-term quality but it is kind of hard to describe. Ergonomic? Everything just feels better, its easier to reach, and makes a lot of sense. I enjoy sitting in an E46 more than my E90.

This. E92 is a far superior car, in terms of suspension/chassis and especially build quality. It is a generational leap.

Out of the box its far too GT and cushy. But once you get it on a diet and stiffen it up with choice mods (solid subframe bushings, spherical bearings to replace rubber bushings, drivetrain mods, the driving experience is unmatched by any other M car before or after it.

The S65 is absolutely a special engine, even though the rotating assembly is made of glass. S54 is for sure a lot more of a durable engine.

I still own heavily modified examples of both, and have been in and out of these cars for the last 12-13 years.

[dannyzabolotny]

Yes, the e9X (and e82, and e60) cup holders all suck. E39's too, for that matter-- e46 is an outlier 🤣

It's strange how BMW figured out the cupholder setup so well in the E46 and then completely forgot how to make one properly again until the F-chassis cars, by which point the cars themselves became too awful to own/drive.

Funny how this thread came up as I've been pondering the same thing myself. I've been working on an E46 M3 and an E92 M3 back-to-back at the shop, it's been really interesting. Maybe I've just grown used to horrifying turbo BMW nonsense but I feel like the E92 M3 is so much easier to work on than I remember it being in the past.

I do greatly prefer the interior in my E46 325it to any E9x interior... looks nicer, layout feels more intuitive, everything is just simple and doesn't rely on screens. Makes me lean more to the side of getting an E46 M3, since it's just a better version of what I'm already used to. And no, I'm not putting an S54 in my E46 touring... too much work (especially to make it CA legal) for something I'm never gonna utilize (my touring is completely empty 99% of the time).

[01SG]

This. E92 is a far superior car, in terms of...build quality.

The S65 is absolutely a special engine, even though the rotating assembly is made of glass. S54 is for sure a lot more of a durable engine.

It's pretty hard to fault the E46s build quality besides the elephant in the room of the RACP tearing out. But then you acknowledge the s54 is more durable than the s65. I guess there is also the rubber coating on the interior, but that's not a big deal. Overall the e46 is of excellent build quality. I wonder what you find better built in the e9x in particular? I'm trying to think of other e46 faults, but it doesn't rust badly unless it's abused, and it won't tear any mounts out unless you do something it was not designed to do like throw on huge swaybars.

As for driving experience, the roof, weight, and size mean it will never touch the Z cars for me.

[Obioban]

It's strange how BMW figured out the cupholder setup so well in the E46 and then completely forgot how to make one properly again until the F-chassis cars, by which point the cars themselves became too awful to own/drive.

Funny how this thread came up as I've been pondering the same thing myself. I've been working on an E46 M3 and an E92 M3 back-to-back at the shop, it's been really interesting. Maybe I've just grown used to horrifying turbo BMW nonsense but I feel like the E92 M3 is so much easier to work on than I remember it being in the past.

I haven't ever hard to work on a turbo era BMW because I despise how they drive, but I pretty much rage quit my e9x and e60 M5 because I despised working on them (and didn't like how they drove as much as the older cars, so the pain wasn't worth it). The e82 also gets me pretty annoyed pretty often when I have to work on it, but so far not to the point that I've sold the car.

... I need another e39.

[maw1124]

I call "D" mode the wife mode...

Same... because that's what it is, wife and kids mode.

maw

[Slideways]

It's pretty hard to fault the E46s build quality besides the elephant in the room of the RACP tearing out. But then you acknowledge the s54 is more durable than the s65. I guess there is also the rubber coating on the interior, but that's not a big deal. Overall the e46 is of excellent build quality. I wonder what you find better built in the e9x in particular? I'm trying to think of other e46 faults, but it doesn't rust badly unless it's abused, and it won't tear any mounts out unless you do something it was not designed to do like throw on huge swaybars.

As for driving experience, the roof, weight, and size mean it will never touch the Z cars for me.

One great thing about the S54 is that most machine shops can handle machining the iron block or resurfacing/refreshing the cylinder head.

The same cannot be said about the S65 and its alusil block. If you watched the video series of M539 rebuilding his S65, it appears that he has pulled the engine back out because there was some issue with the block.

[dannyzabolotny]

Yeah, lots of places claim that they can bore/hone an Alusil block properly, but I've not seen a single one of those blocks hold up long term. Iron block wins that battle easily... it weighs more but the rebuild-ability and durability is hard to argue with.

[Obioban]

Yeah, lots of places claim that they can bore/hone an Alusil block properly, but I've not seen a single one of those blocks hold up long term. Iron block wins that battle easily... it weighs more but the rebuild-ability and durability is hard to argue with.

S54 long block is lighter than s65 long block. BMW’s misinformation advertising was based on short blocks, which is.. silly.

[dannyzabolotny]

S54 long block is lighter than s65 long block. BMW’s misinformation advertising was based on short blocks, which is.. silly.

That is a silly way to advertise the weights indeed. But it makes sense, a V8 will always weigh more than an inline 6, just because you've got two cylinder heads, four camshafts, all the associated valvetrain, it adds up! One could make an argument for the V8 being a bit shorter which puts the weight a bit further back in the chassis, that's more of a valid point. Overall though, the E9x M3 weighs more than the E46 M3 despite all of its aluminum components, which is kinda impressive. Must be all the safety equipment and technology adding that weight, along with being a physically bigger vehicle.

[OldRanger]

I have so much fun driving my wife’s E93 w/Epic’s DCT tune I’m ashamed of myself. It’s a 2013 with <60k. Sure, I can feel the flex, but the car still goes exactly where I point it at sane road speeds. Just drove it last night with the top down. The OEM exhaust note is glorious. I never knew a convertible could be so fun.

(I have two E46 M3’s, both manuals, both with mods, one is track-only. We drive them both without mercy and they seem to like that)

Surising how many people stop us to look at or photograph the E46s: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DdE0j...Znd3g0YXAwamx2

[hogger453]

If I put 333 HP in a E92 or F80 or G80 would it be as fast as the E 46 NFW. And the E92 is only slightly faster with 414 HP.
Now turn the tables. Put 414 HP in a E46 and you're going to have a faster car than the E92 and F80.

I read a post the E92 is a far superior chassis. It's not.
I still remember 1st time getting into the E92 thinking: "you got to be kidding"

If you're a driver get the E46. Hell, I think the E36 is a better car than the E92.
Every subsequent generation of M has lost something, more weight, that's why the need for more HP.

[Tbonem3]

The e9x chassis is quite superior. That fact only resulting in a small on-track-difference doesn't prove the e9x is not really much superior but rather, imo, that this how much work/improvement it takes JUST to get an extra second off a lap time. Race teams spend incredible amounts of time/effort/$ in the pursuit of tenths of a second.

I'd say the issue lies in your internal value system. What does "much better" mean to you?

I own both cars and the first time I drove the e90 back at home after the e46 I just laughed. The e46 felt like a wooden galleon going around an off camber turn I love near my house. The E90? Handled it with easy. The e9x front grip is insane. All you have to do is take a corner in an e46, then take it again in the e9x and you'll immediately tell. The e46 can even have fancy suspension and sticky tires and the e9x stock with 10 year old pss (like I have ☺️) and it won't matter.

Now, for fun factor, I still prefer the e46 so don't think I'm not a maxi. But I call a spade a spade.

[dannyzabolotny]

The E9x chassis is better, objectively speaking. The front suspension finally went to the multi-control arm approach that almost every OEM uses nowadays, and the rear multilink is a much more modern approach compared to the E46's rear suspension which is still an evolution of the classic trailing arm suspension. The chassis bracing is also quite a bit better, with sturdier (but lighter) aluminum subframes and better topside V-bracing (as opposed to a simple strut brace). And of course, no issues with the RACP or strut mounts. The cooling system also works better and finally gets rid of the clutch fan. And you could get the E92 stock with a carbon roof which is what people spend thousands retrofitting to their E46 M3's. The DCT is light years ahead of the SMG, for those chasing lap times. The list goes on and on.

All of that being said, the E9x is heavier and more isolated, that's just the result of being a newer car. It's still a great driving experience but it really does start to feel more like a 5-series than a light, tossable 3-series. Even the E46 was kinda borderline, having gained a good bit of weight and size over the previous E36.

New cars will always be objectively "better," but as enthusiasts we value more than just numbers and specs, we chase after a certain feel, a certain engagement with our cars. There's a reason people love the E46 M3 (and E36 M3) so much, it really is an experience that you can't get in almost any modern car. Plus on the DIY side of things, the E46 M3 is much easier to work on than an E9x M3, and I say that as somebody that works on these cars constantly for customers.

[hogger453]

Whichever puts a smile on your face, a special feeling in your heart. That's the one to get.

Peace brother.

[01SG]

I have so much fun driving my wife’s E93 w/Epic’s DCT tune I’m ashamed of myself. It’s a 2013 with <60k. Sure, I can feel the flex, but the car still goes exactly where I point it at sane road speeds. Just drove it last night with the top down. The OEM exhaust note is glorious. I never knew a convertible could be so fun.

(I have two E46 M3’s, both manuals, both with mods, one is track-only. We drive them both without mercy and they seem to like that)

Surising how many people stop us to look at or photograph the E46s: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DdE0j...Znd3g0YXAwamx2

The roof down really adds a sense of occasion, it limits usability, but on the right day it's just blissful. Now imagine that with 1,000 less pounds, sitting over the rear wheels, and a chassis stiffer than the m3 coupe while maintaining excellent comfort. Z4 M is calling your name. (I think the coupes gave the whole line a bad rep in terms of ride quality-the roadster is a pussycat).